Amp Ressurection

lloyd · November 2014

So my Classic 30 has just been to the clinic (reverb making noise when turned up and tube issues) and the guy there says it's not worth fixing.

He told me to sell it for spares and repairs. Any idea how much I'd be looking at? I'm watching one that's up on flea bay so that'll give me an idea but I'm impatient.

I've had it about 3 or 4 years and it's been gigged throughout that so doesn't owe me anything. But still pretty wounded as was looking to part ex it after having it fixed and now going to have to pay out a bit more in £££'s right before Xmas.....

robinbowes · November 2014

What did he say is wrong with it?

R.

jpfamps · November 2014

It is worth fixing, unless the person doing it is a real chiseller.

Whoever told you this is either incompetent, or over charging massively, or both.

The Classic 30 is not the easiest of amps to work on, which I suspect is the reason you were told this.

ICBM · November 2014

Agreed, and actually the most expensive faults on it in terms of parts - blown transformers - are among the easiest to fix because they don't require getting the awkward folded PCB out. Faults on the PCB are almost always going to be small cheap parts and a fair bit of labour, but I would be surprised if any repair on one would take much more than a couple of hours even if it's fairly hard to find.

lloyd · November 2014

Hmm ok thanks for the replies-this makes me feel a bit better-but also a bit unhappy with the guy who told me this.

I know he's very busy, so assumed he was good. But could he have just not wanted to work on it? I'd have accepted him saying that with no hard feelings.

He didn't look at it to be fair-just listened to me say there was an issue with the reverb and it was making a buzzing noise when on....he immediately said to scrap it as they're not worth the fix up cost-which I took at face value (I'm clueless with electronics). I'll have a browse of the Internet and see if I can educate myself a bit and find an amp tech nearby (manchester) who might be able to help.

jpfamps · November 2014

lloyd said:

Hmm ok thanks for the replies-this makes me feel a bit better-but also a bit unhappy with the guy who told me this.

I know he's very busy, so assumed he was good. But could he have just not wanted to work on it? I'd have accepted him saying that with no hard feelings.

He didn't look at it to be fair-just listened to me say there was an issue with the reverb and it was making a buzzing noise when on....he immediately said to scrap it as they're not worth the fix up cost-which I took at face value (I'm clueless with electronics). I'll have a browse of the Internet and see if I can educate myself a bit and find an amp tech nearby (manchester) who might be able to help.

Writing the amp off without looking at it is not fair.

I occasionally advise this, but only with very cheap amps, ie ones' you could buy from eBay for £30-40.

Whilst yours isn't an especially valuable amp, it's worth fixing. It's only 4 years old!

I suspect that either this chap didn't want to work on the amp (most likely), or charges so much the repair is uneconomic (I've seen a couple of examples of shocking over charging in the last few months.)

If he is too busy to work on it, that's fine but be honest about it.

lloyd · November 2014

Well I'm glad I posted what I did here!

Cheers for that, appreciate it-I'll be making a call to a different guy tomorrow and see what he says......

ecc83 · November 2014

Stories such as this and others we have had here make me think even more that "trades people " should be regulated and hold reasonable qualifications for what they purport to do.

As it is any spotty faced yoof with a soldering iron and a bucket of dodgy valves off the Bay can set himself up as an amp tech' !

I would like to see some form of consumer "insurance" that all trades pay into (with a turnover limit perhaps like VAT?) . A firm would not be forced to pay in but at least the punter could ask why.

After all, you would not employ a builder who did not carry third party cover for damage and injury would you?

Dave.

lloyd · November 2014

ecc83 said:

Stories such as this and others we have had here make me think even more that "trades people " should be regulated and hold reasonable qualifications for what they purport to do.
As it is any spotty faced yoof with a soldering iron and a bucket of dodgy valves off the Bay can set himself up as an amp tech' !
I would like to see some form of consumer "insurance" that all trades pay into (with a turnover limit perhaps like VAT?) . A firm would not be forced to pay in but at least the punter could ask why.
After all, you would not employ a builder who did not carry third party cover for damage and injury would you?

Dave.

I'd go along with this...Though this guy is an older gent (mid-60's maybe) and is busy-takes in a lot of smaller 'name' bands gear and came recommended.

I think as he's busy maybe he just didn't want the hassle of working on it? But like I said above I'd have preferred him to just say that to me....

robinbowes · November 2014

Out of interest, where was this guy based? PM me if you like...

usedtobe · November 2014

Stories like this remind me how glad I am to be a member of this forum!

martinw · November 2014

I've repaired a fair few of these, and never come across one that cost more than an hour and a half labour, plus parts. Even with a new tranny that isn't likely to be more than £150. Easily repairable.

lloyd · November 2014

Cheers for the responses-makes me feel better regarding the amp-my girlfriend might even get a couple presents for Xmas now rather than a new amp for me

Danny1969 · November 2014

I rarely give out any kind of diagnosis on the phone, you can shoot yourself in the foot too easily. I get the customer to drop it off, I spend an hour on it working out whats wrong and how much it's gonna cost and I charge for the estimate if the repair doesn't go ahead. I make the customer aware of that beforehand. That way I get paid for my time and they get a proper diagnosis and a firm price rather than "it will probably be the xxx or whatever"

So the guy should have looked at it, worked out exactly what was wrong and how much a repair would be and charged you if you didn't want to proceed. But like you say he might not have wanted the work in which case why not just say I'm too busy at the moment to take on any more work. Decent customer communication is one of the most inmportant aspects of the repair business

lloyd · November 2014

Danny1969 said:

I rarely give out any kind of diagnosis on the phone, you can shoot yourself in the foot too easily. I get the customer to drop it off, I spend an hour on it working out whats wrong and how much it's gonna cost and I charge for the estimate if the repair doesn't go ahead. I make the customer aware of that beforehand. That way I get paid for my time and they get a proper diagnosis and a firm price rather than "it will probably be the xxx or whatever"

So the guy should have looked at it, worked out exactly what was wrong and how much a repair would be and charged you if you didn't want to proceed. But like you say he might not have wanted the work in which case why not just say I'm too busy at the moment to take on any more work. Decent customer communication is one of the most inmportant aspects of the repair business

I'd have preferred an honest "I'm too busy to want to mess about with this" to be fair. If he can turn custom away then good luck to him, but it's more than just me that will hear about this (not that I'll not put any of his details up on here) my band mates etc also I'll not recommend him on here or to anyone else now.

lloyd · November 2014

Emailed another guy not 15 minutes ago with a description of the amp and vague description of the fault who came back with this reply:

Hello Lloyd & thanks for getting in touch

If you could get the unit to me at the workshops sometime on Thursday I could probably get it on the bench before the week is out

I’m generally there from around 10am - 7pm, Monday to Saturday.. let me know when suits

Fingers crossed he can get it sorted

ICBM · November 2014

To be fair, there are amps I won't work on and which I might be inclined just to say are beyond economic repair without looking at, once I know the fault is not just a jack or a switch or something.

Usually this is from experience of taking something apart that's very hard to work on, finding that the fault is a major fraction of the cost of the amp, and then having the customer refuse the estimate. I suppose I should just charge the hourly rate anyway, but that can become a stand-off if it hasn't been fixed, and it usually ends up being better to give the amp back with no charge (or at most the minimum bench fee) for the sake of customer goodwill.

Then there are others which I simply don't want the risk of having to guarantee a repair on, even for a cheap repair, because they are so poorly designed that failures are almost inevitable and I don't want to get into the argument about whether another failure is the same fault or not, or down to me - even after having explained that to the customer in the first place.

But the Classic 30 is not remotely in either of these categories, even though it's far from my favourite amp to work on.

lloyd · December 2014

Took the amp to the new tech last night-No issues with sorting it so fingers crossed it's back to me soon in good working order.

ecc83 · December 2014

I was not in the gitamp repair "business" but I was in domestic electronics servicing for a very long time and I have seen and worked under several business "models".

The good folks of Fretboard seem sensible and realize that the service shop needs to "win" and win well most of the time or they go out of business and both parties suffer. The general public is not so enamoured of "Trades People" !

There will always be a small minority that think they are being lied to and ripped off (usually the better off* customers!) . This was somewhat understandable given the number of "cowboys" in the trade in the 60s,70s,80s, something that COULD and should have been fixed IMO by legislation.

The model that worked best IMHO was...

Charge a realistic, non-returnable upfront fee (and that is almost ALL you say on the phone!) . This covers chat time, phone, stationary etc.

Display prominently the terms of the sale of uncollected repairs and put it on receipts.

Charge a flat fee for repairs plus components. This makes thing crystal to the customer and simplifies book work immensely. Up to the tech' to state the fee but I would have though he could take a year's work and come up with an average charge? If it was a good year, cool. If a bad double it!

Yes, sometimes you will lose on time and a job you thought simple takes for ever. But in the TV/VCR trade there were "stock faults". 10 minute repairs that initially took you fekking DAYS to suss out! You lost then, now some gravy!

Of course the tech always has the option of saying "I will do the job but on a time and materials basis only".

*I once had the GREAT satisfaction of asking a snotty woman in what now would be a 1/2mil country house, "So how much does your husband charge/get paid then?" She had moaned because I been only 10 mins cleaning the heads on her VCR and coughed at the bill (not my money btw) I left with a cheque and threats that she would be talking to my "superiors". Which she did, not knowing of course that I had already been made redundant two weeks before!

The real kicker was that the guy she complained to, my boss the Service Manager, had also been pushed and was taking early retirement. He gave her short shrift!

Dave.

Danny1969 · December 2014

@ecc83

That reminds me of the days when TV's and videos were worth fixing cos they cost a months salary, I was in that game before I got into the laptop repair business. Laptops were expensive and a typical repair was £300 to £400. Now people don't like paying much more than £75 ish no matter what the fault.

At least with music instruments and amps there's an attachment, people like their gear and generally want it fixed, and if they gig they normally want it done quick

guitarfishbay · December 2014

lloyd said:

ecc83 said:

Stories such as this and others we have had here make me think even more that "trades people " should be regulated and hold reasonable qualifications for what they purport to do.
As it is any spotty faced yoof with a soldering iron and a bucket of dodgy valves off the Bay can set himself up as an amp tech' !
I would like to see some form of consumer "insurance" that all trades pay into (with a turnover limit perhaps like VAT?) . A firm would not be forced to pay in but at least the punter could ask why.
After all, you would not employ a builder who did not carry third party cover for damage and injury would you?

Dave.

I'd go along with this...Though this guy is an older gent (mid-60's maybe) and is busy-takes in a lot of smaller 'name' bands gear and came recommended.

I think as he's busy maybe he just didn't want the hassle of working on it? But like I said above I'd have preferred him to just say that to me....

I think I know who you mean, judging from where your profile says you live.

If it is who I'm thinking of, he really doesn't like Laneys. He won't work on certain models from my discussion with him.

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