Amplifier Mistake (Blackstar)

ICBM · December 2014

No, the speakers are connected with push clips.

thomasross20 · December 2014

Thanks!

I know I wont need one.... but just in case (!).... if my Torero doesn't sell, I'm considering just trading it in and getting a backup head that I can plug straight into the Blackstar.

ThePrettyDamned · December 2014

thomasross20 said:

Thanks!
I know I wont need one.... but just in case (!).... if my Torero doesn't sell, I'm considering just trading it in and getting a backup head that I can plug straight into the Blackstar.

Coda have an ID head in the sale.

thomasross20 · December 2014

Yeah, £280! In fact if you check out thomann, they have a lot of Blackstar stuff on sale.

Unfortunately those heads are big and all I want is a small portable backup head.

ICBM · December 2014

thomasross20 said:
I know I wont need one.... but just in case (!).... if my Torero doesn't sell, I'm considering just trading it in and getting a backup head that I can plug straight into the Blackstar.

Bear in mind that you would need a special wiring box to connect the two Blackstar speakers in series, when using an external amp - the speakers are 4-ohm each so they make a 2-ohm load if you just plug both of them into a head, which is too low for almost any.

Why is none of this straightforward?!!

Although that would not be an issue if you replaced them with 8-ohm Centuries.

Personally I would say a backup guitar is more important than a backup head though. It's far more likely you'll break a string or something than the ID will blow up.

thomasross20 · December 2014

Oh - I thought they were 8 ohms each, so 4 ohms total (2 in parallel).

I plan to take the Suhr Pro as a backup.

EDIT - lighter speakers still not out of the question! Do most amp heads have two outputs that can go to two speakers?

ICBM · December 2014

thomasross20 said:

Oh - I thought they were 8 ohms each, so 4 ohms total (2 in parallel).

No... it's because it's a stereo amp - the speakers are completely separate, not in parallel - each side is the standard ID60 power stage, 60W into 4 ohms.

thomasross20 said:
Do most amp heads have two outputs that can go to two speakers?

Yes. But they're almost always in parallel, hence why you would need a series splitter to run the two 4-ohm speakers from one.

But if you had already swapped the combo to 8-ohm speakers, no problem - assuming the cables reach! Which is not a certainty either… so you may *still* need some sort of splitter/extension.

thomasross20 · December 2014

Oh man, you're right - what a pain!!

Wow, two 4 ohms in series... that's something!

If I swap to two eight ohm speakers, that'd reduce the output somewhat. What a bummer (not that it's not loud enough!).

Argh lol!!

thomasross20 · December 2014

I guess I could always just run into ONE speaker - that would be the easiest option. So I'd need a head that could run into 4 phms - not such a big problem. I just lose out on one speaker.

ICBM · December 2014

Yes. Personally I think it was a mistake for Blackstar to go down the 4-ohm route since it restricts connectivity so much. I can see their logic though - most users will only ever use the combos as self-contained boxes, so they naturally don't want to reduce the volume just for the sake of allowing the fairly unusual option of adding another cabinet. (Some other companies don't find it a problem though.)

I'm not sure how much volume you would really lose by going to 8 ohms - although if it's a rebadged V-Type the 'Blackbird' speaker is claimed to be 98dB by Celestion, a Century is not actually any more efficient and hence you would lose a little. But if you could find any of the original Century 'Modern' speakers (not made any more) I think they were 101dB so that would get you back the same volume. They were also extremely shrill-sounding, which may not be a good thing...

To be honest I highly doubt losing a bit of volume is going to be a problem anyway though! That amp is 120W into two 12s, it will be really seriously loud if you turn it up, almost certainly more than you'll ever need.

thomasross20 · December 2014

Agreed!

So... forgetting about other speakers for now, I *could* get a backup head to run into one 4ohm speaker if anything ever went wrong.

I'm going to lug the amp out of the room today/tomorrow... program the FX loop to be active and check:

1) if there is volume with nothing connected.

2) if there is any screeching when a boost is put in the FX loop (on the Blackstar forum this has been mentioned).

3) check out delay times when switching patches/FX using the footswitch.

4) re-assess just how heavy it is.

Tiny/micro Terror look good value for money, Magnum 44 looks portable (though I remember reading on here that they do tend to blow up), Vox Nightrain looks cool but maybe more than I need. HoTone look cool:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/hotone_nano_legacy_heart_attack.htm?sid=deb6ca574e70790a71897fe7795d1bbc

RaymondLin · December 2014

Wasnt the Vox Night train on sale for like £99 or something not long back in GutiarGuitar?

thomasross20 · December 2014

Oh really?? Just checked, no longer if so

thomasross20 · December 2014

Note to self: backup head doesn't have to have an FX loop as I'd run everything through the front of it and use it clean only.

Jalapeno · December 2014

If you don't want an FX loop - serious look at the ZT Lunchbox needed. Check out the Youtube demos of it via a 4x12

thomasross20 · December 2014

Just looking now (though leaving for the shops in a bit) - they look very high wattage for the size!!

Am I right in saying these are solid state and are combos - so don't need to plug into speakers at all? EDIT - just saw you can run speakers with it.

Wow, looks like they get good reviews (and some not so good)! And appear to be very loud...! Maybe I'll just take that to gigs! ;D

Surprised there hasn't been more chat about these?

thomasross20 · December 2014

Had a VERY productive afternoon. Lots of fun. Takes ages to drag the amp & pedal-board out, set them up, connect to computer etc... so I rarely do it. Some of these pointers are just reminders for me...

--> Programmed in the FX loop for the amp. You still get noise out of it even if nothing is in the loop.

--> Yay, my boost, delay & chorus sound great through the loop! SO much better than relying on a boosted lead channel.

--> Although heavy (to me) I realise many cabs are also quite heavy so unless I'm going the NL12 super-light cab and mini head option, I'm going to suck it up and stick with it.

--> Some people complained about a delay for patch switching and FX switching using the FS-10 footswitch. I saw very little. Patch/FX changes when the foot it taken OFF the pedal, not when you tap it down.

--> Saying that, you still have to hold down a button to switch between FX and patches which takes a couple of seconds... so that's a no-go in a live situation.

--> The FX and tuner on the amp are great, I don't know what people are complaining about there!

--> I really need loads more spare leads and patch cables with super-small connections to the pedals because there isn't a lot of space between pedals on the board, and between the last pedal and the edge of the BCB-10 case.

--> Need to figure out if there is anything inside the BCB-10 case (electronics?) or if the only that can go wrong is the power-supply, which I should order a back-up of (I probably wont...). The little power leads going from the power section of the board to each pedal... I'll need to get spares of those.

--> Had a great tweak with all my pedals. Boost I prefer "normal" when hit (no fat or mid-boosting for me, thanks). The Riot Reloaded pedal is REALLY amazing.... sounds just as good as the Blackstar distorted channel and does the cleaning up thing with volume rolled down. Just a stunning pedal that I'm glad I got.

--> Still need a mini replacement head. Will look into that.

ThePrettyDamned · December 2014

Really pleased for you mate, that's a great result

Do you really *need* a mini head as backup? I ask because @ICBM reckons ID amps survive rehearsal space time... And that's the equivalent of throwing an amp off a cliff I think.

If you do really want one, I reckon a half decent option that would be super portable would be something like the ZT lunchbox amps. They're not *amazing* sounding through the internal speakers, though perfectly pleasant, but put one through a cab and they're quit surprising! I've seen a chap in Amsterdam gig one with a couple of distortion boxes and it was fine.

Although he was rather overshadowed by the chap next to him with the JTM45...

thomasross20 · December 2014

Yep, ICBM has complete faith in these so that's probably good enough for me... except I always prepare for the worst-case

Jal quite likes the lunchboxes too - in time I'll check it out

I was really surprised that the Riot Reloaded was as good (better!?) than the Blackstar distorted channels. Gives me GREAT flexibility - I really can just go through it clean and use my pedals (which I did last gig) or if the pedalboard dies, use the Blackstar channels. Lots of options!

ThePrettyDamned · December 2014

thomasross20 said:

Yep, ICBM has complete faith in these so that's probably good enough for me... except I always prepare for the worst-case

Jal quite likes the lunchboxes too - in time I'll check it out

I was really surprised that the Riot Reloaded was as good (better!?) than the Blackstar distorted channels. Gives me GREAT flexibility - I really can just go through it clean and use my pedals (which I did last gig) or if the pedalboard dies, use the Blackstar channels. Lots of options!

The neat thing about the blackstar is that, despite being digital, it LIKES distortion pedals! I don't think you realise how rare that is, 'proper' solid state is usually okay (my peavey bandit is fine), but digital amps often sound shite. (by the way, thanks for discovering that!)

So being able to dial in the clean sound you want using all the modelling options available, then adding your own preferred distortion is an excellent way of getting the most from your gear I think. Plus, as you say, the blackstar gives you a backup should the switch give way at a gig. Very nice!

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Amplifier Mistake (Blackstar)

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