Acceptable Turn Around Times for Repairs?

Bellycaster · April 2015

I sent my Roland Cube 80XL back to Gear4Music on 19th Januaury, so they could then send it to Roland for repair as it was under Warranty. So I still don't have it back, so that is 11 weeks and counting.

It is only a back up amp and I have two other much lovelier amps to play with in the meantime, so I'm not pining for it, but I do think the timescale is starting to take the piss a little bit. I understand there may be a period where G4M have to process the details etc, send to Roland and then Roland send back to G4M etc.

I've had a very busy and shitty couple of months so I've had other things on my mind and I think I called them in Feb and they said Roland had the amp, but not had much chance to chase up since. Looks like I may have to find time tomorrow to call Roland.

When I first called Roland in January explaining the fault, I told them I had not registered my product(even though it was within it's warranty period), but the guy reassured me "Don't worry, we'll see to that and see to the repair, it is under warranty" or words to that effect, I made sure on the phone that he said it was under warranty and the repair was free.

On March 20th I received a letter from Roland UK saying my registration had been activated, so they are aware of me. I wonder if this has caused the delay? I hope they don't try to wriggle out of accepting it was under warranty, I have the receipt from the Amp purchase.

Danny1969 · April 2015

Andertons had my mates Mackie 1608 desk for 4 months .... various excuses like waiting for parts etc. In the end they gave him a new one ..... I expect the old one is still waiting for parts .... or maybe waiting for someone who knows what they're doing

I had an HK Dart monitor go wrong under it's 5 year warranty. It was shipped to an authorized repair centre and was returned fixed within a week

Some places \ manufacturers just aren't geared up for repairs. I think 11 weeks is taking the piss myself but I suspect various bits of paper are being pushed apart rather the amp being dealt with so it may be some time yet

Mick · April 2015

Reading This I was under the impression they're supposed to fix it and return it to you within 60 days, or send you a replacement. Or have I got it wrong?

Adam_MD · April 2015

Mick;586604" said:
Reading This I was under the impression they're supposed to fix it and return it to you within 60 days, or send you a replacement. Or have I got it wrong?

That's the extended warranty. In the first year manufacturers warranty they should have it fixed or replaced in a 'reasonable' amount of time. Reasonable is usually 28 days in this country @Bellycaster contact Gear4Music and tell them you would like it replaced or refunded as 11 weeks is taking the piss. Your contract and warranty is with the retailer not the manufacturer so don't let them fob you off to Roland it's down to Gear4Music to sort if it's taking too long.

Edit I should have said 28 working days. So essentially 6 weeks.

ecc83 · April 2015

I don't know the legal position regarding service in general (do we not have a consumer lawyer here in Fretmeister?) but the whole subject is one that all governments have ignored for decades and since it makes vastly better sense in energy and resource terms to repair something rather than replace it, I am surprised that the "Greens" are not making a lot more noise about the issue.

The old "waiting for parts" excuse does not wash these days (if it ever did!) when I can get stuff off 'Zon practically the next day. If companies want to trade here they should be compelled to keep a reasonable stock of spares. NOT protectionism but a level playing field.

All companies should I think be made to display a contact email address ON THEIR HOME PAGE! Not hidden away so you have to scroll thru' many pages to find it. Many companies force you to fill in a bloody great form to get contact often with daft sections...WTF does it matter what OS my PC uses if the gadget has a broken jack socket? These should be additional to contact, such questions, where and when relevant can wait until you get personal contact.

Of course, the firms fear inundation if they make contact too easy? Boo-Bloody-Hoo! Employ more people to answer the emails! I am sure there are 1,000 of people in wheelchairs who have the computer skills?

A few decades ago companies CARED about customer service and there was a trade body you could complain to (RTRA) . If a dealer did not remove the digit and fix your goods in a timely manner you could actually PHONE Sony or Ferguson and complain and they would kick arse.

"There is very little in this world that cannot be made a little worse and a little cheaper" That is attributed to Allan Sugar (and Amstrad products fitted it to a Tee!) The same goes for customer service.

Dave.

longjaw · April 2015

I'd be playing merry hell if I didn't have the amp back (or a replacement) within 28 days.

Kebabkid · April 2015

Said it before on this one J. Roland or someone are taking the piss. Demand are refund as the product crapped out on you very early on and this so - called repair has taken an age. It's not what one expects of Roland.

Mick · April 2015

Adam_MD said:

Mick;586604" said:
Reading This I was under the impression they're supposed to fix it and return it to you within 60 days, or send you a replacement. Or have I got it wrong?
That's the extended warranty. In the first year manufacturers warranty they should have it fixed or replaced in a 'reasonable' amount of time. Reasonable is usually 28 days in this country @Bellycaster contact Gear4Music and tell them you would like it replaced or refunded as 11 weeks is taking the piss. Your contract and warranty is with the retailer not the manufacturer so don't let them fob you off to Roland it's down to Gear4Music to sort if it's taking too long.

Edit I should have said 28 working days. So essentially 6 weeks.

OK, what about this bit, found on this page? .

"

DEFECTIVE GOODS WITHIN WARRANTY:

All products carry a 1 year warranty unless otherwise stated. If items become defective due to manufacture fault within six months of purchase then the vendor will arrange for the collection and repair of the product entirely at the vendors cost. If the product can not be repaired within 60 days, then a replacement product will be issued, which will not be older and not be in worse condition than original product returned by the purchaser. If the item becomes defective within the warranty period, but after six months from the date of delivery, then the same conditions as above apply but the customer will be responsible for the cost of returning the product to the vendor. Products may not be returned to the Vendor for refund later than 28 days from delivery unless the vendor is unable to comply with its warranty obligations. This warranty excludes items that have become defective due to miss use, accidental damage or any reason other than manufacture fault. If an item is found to be without fault on its return to Gear4music, and is out of the period of 28 day money back guarantee, then we will return the item to you for a small charge. We recommend that you insure your goods."

ecc83 · April 2015

AFAIK "twelve months" is not cast in stone as a warranty period? It is just a figure that by custom and practice we have come to accept. You would not for instance expect an engine to clap out in a £12,000 motor car in say 50,000 miles ? (I had one, A mitzi diesel , The banjo unions leaked on the oil coiler and it seized solid. Impressive skid mark down the A428!. Mitsubishi "gracefully" gave the company a new engine)

If a fault occurs some years after purchase and you would not reasonably expect it, a mains traff going OC say in a £1500 amplifier, you should get at least a part of that repair for free.

60 days is outrageous! Obviously the company does not have parts readily available or the skilled personnel or both!

I repaired rented tellies and vids for a long time...60 MINUTES was too long for most people!

Dave.

jpfamps · April 2015

ecc83 said:

The old "waiting for parts" excuse does not wash these days (if it ever did!) when I can get stuff off 'Zon practically the next day. If companies want to trade here they should be compelled to keep a reasonable stock of spares. NOT protectionism but a level playing field.

Dave.

You obviously don't work in the repair business.

Sourcing the correct parts can be a total pain, especially now many "UK" companies out source their production to the China so use parts that aren't available from the usual suspects in the UK (RS, CPC, Farnell etc).

Some companies such as EH simply don't supply parts for repairers, and even large companies such as Fender can take weeks to ship the correct part (eg if the part is not in stock at Fender UK, they get in touch with Fender Europe, and if it's not in stock at Fender Europe they have to refer to Fender US). I've waited 9 weeks for a HRD mains transformer from Fender.

Often you can use a alternative part, but frequently you have to have correct part eg is someone has kicked the shaft of the dual concentric eq control on their BOSS bass overdrive.

Danny1969 · April 2015

Some companies don't supply parts at all. Try ordering a motherboard for an Asus laptop, or any part for that matter other than a charger or a battery.

I just fixed a bunch of LearnPAds for a Junior school, had to get the parts from a Chinese grey market company trading on Ebay

I often get Siemmens VAS car diagnostic machines in for repair with broken ports, no support there if I can't buy diag port with the right PCB layout I have to chassis mount and fly lead to the PCB. They don't even sell the loaded PCB's as a service part, only complete replacement units

I do remember the old days with TV's and videos though, great backup from Phillips and Ferguson in terms of manuals, parts and repair support and rubber wheels to fix transport problems with top loader videos etc. Misty eye .... those were the days

Sassafras · April 2015

The way technology advances from week to week, it must be almost impossible to stock all spares needed especially for something that's a few years old. You'd need a huge warehouse full of parts, some of which might never be needed.

Bellycaster · April 2015

Thanks Lads, interesting reading some of this. I did call G4M today to get an explanation, and got apologies etc. They did have to call me back though in order for them to investigate.

I was told it was indeed that they(Roland) were awaiting parts and that it might be another 3 weeks which would take it to 14 Weeks. I said they would have to consider refunding or replacing and I will hopefully be receiving a call tomorrow from someone higher up the chain at G4M as it was almost 5pm by the time this was all sorted, so we'll see tomorrow then.

Adam_MD · April 2015

How long did you have the amp before reporting the fault?

Bellycaster · April 2015

Adam_MD said:

How long did you have the amp before reporting the fault?

@Adam_MD

9 months, but it was reported as soon as it happened, surely well within Warranty.

Adam_MD · April 2015

If it had been inside the first 6 you could have pushed for a refund as the fault would be deemed as having been there since day 1 (it would b down to them to prove it hadn't). As it was in the second 6 months the responsibility would be yours to prove it has been there since the start.

As it stands now I would point out how long you've been without it and that your contract is with Gear4Music not Roland - you will accept either a replacement or a refund but would like this resolved asap. Tell them 14 weeks is not a reasonable length of time to be without the item and see how you get on.

ecc83 · April 2015

jpfamps said:

ecc83 said:

The old "waiting for parts" excuse does not wash these days (if it ever did!) when I can get stuff off 'Zon practically the next day. If companies want to trade here they should be compelled to keep a reasonable stock of spares. NOT protectionism but a level playing field.

Dave.

You obviously don't work in the repair business.

Sourcing the correct parts can be a total pain, especially now many "UK" companies out source their production to the China so use parts that aren't available from the usual suspects in the UK (RS, CPC, Farnell etc).

Some companies such as EH simply don't supply parts for repairers, and even large companies such as Fender can take weeks to ship the correct part (eg if the part is not in stock at Fender UK, they get in touch with Fender Europe, and if it's not in stock at Fender Europe they have to refer to Fender US). I've waited 9 weeks for a HRD mains transformer from Fender.

Often you can use a alternative part, but frequently you have to have correct part eg is someone has kicked the shaft of the dual concentric eq control on their BOSS bass overdrive.

You misunderstand me. I DID work in the repair business, mainly radio, TV and video but also some hi fi and tape recorders. Even overseas companies like Sony and Hitachi had well stocked service depots and very knowledgeable staff. Virtually all the major companies ran training courses for dealer's service staff. Every day we would get a wodge of service manuals from the above or Philips, Grundig Thorn.

Those days have gone caused yes by Joe Public wanting ultra cheap goods and so the manufacturers no long support service and spares. My point is there needs to be some form of legislation to force companies to at least keep UK spares stocks. After all, the finished goods come in on container ships, no great cost to include a few transformers.

As I said before, there was a trade body for at least part of the electronics service industry. "Collective action" is now something of a dirty word but so long as dealers and service people remain isolated and fragmented the Big Boys won't change.

Dave.

Bellycaster · April 2015

Cheers @Adam_MD

I suppose as things stand, I would prefer to be given a refund, but I could live a replacement, although the 80XL is discontinued now and they have no remaining stock. The subsequent Roland 80 GX is more expensive by £40 as well at £229 (I got the 80XL when they slashed the prices last year to £189).

I would accept a replacement item of equal value though(maybe with a good will gesture of a few added quid chucked in....nudge nudge...wink wink).

Seriously though, I suppose G4M did their bit (although I don't know how long it took them to process the paperwork and get it to Roland), the main hold up has been at Roland, as far as I have been told.

Adam_MD · April 2015

ecc83;587773" said:
jpfamps said:

ecc83 said:

The old "waiting for parts" excuse does not wash these days (if it ever did!) when I can get stuff off 'Zon practically the next day. If companies want to trade here they should be compelled to keep a reasonable stock of spares. NOT protectionism but a level playing field.

Dave.

You obviously don't work in the repair business.

Sourcing the correct parts can be a total pain, especially now many "UK" companies out source their production to the China so use parts that aren't available from the usual suspects in the UK (RS, CPC, Farnell etc).

Some companies such as EH simply don't supply parts for repairers, and even large companies such as Fender can take weeks to ship the correct part (eg if the part is not in stock at Fender UK, they get in touch with Fender Europe, and if it's not in stock at Fender Europe they have to refer to Fender US). I've waited 9 weeks for a HRD mains transformer from Fender.

Often you can use a alternative part, but frequently you have to have correct part eg is someone has kicked the shaft of the dual concentric eq control on their BOSS bass overdrive.

You misunderstand me. I DID work in the repair business, mainly radio, TV and video but also some hi fi and tape recorders. Even overseas companies like Sony and Hitachi had well stocked service depots and very knowledgeable staff. Virtually all the major companies ran training courses for dealer's service staff. Every day we would get a wodge of service manuals from the above or Philips, Grundig Thorn.Those days have gone caused yes by Joe Public wanting ultra cheap goods and so the manufacturers no long support service and spares. My point is there needs to be some form of legislation to force companies to at least keep UK spares stocks. After all, the finished goods come in on container ships, no great cost to include a few transformers. As I said before, there was a trade body for at least part of the electronics service industry. "Collective action" is now something of a dirty word but so long as dealers and service people remain isolated and fragmented the Big Boys won't change.Dave.

I worked for Dixons group when they got rid of all their instore repair dudes and it sucked. Billy the technician in my store was a great guy to have around and I learned a shit load from him. Instead of someone leaving in a tv, hi fi, pc etc with a fault then picking it up in a day or two turned into leave the product instore and then pissed off customer gets it back 4 to 6 weeks later after I sent it back to head office where they'd get to it eventually.

The other problem for me was the assholes who made that decision didn't have to deal with the unhappy customers everyday I did because they all asked for the store manager. Also they started buying shit loads of stuff with no warranty from the manufacturer because it was cheaper so for smaller items we had to swop them instore and skip the faulty unit the expensive stuff was sent away to disastercare to look after.

God I don't miss working for those pricks.

Adam_MD · April 2015

Bellycaster;587779" said:
Cheers @Adam_MD

Seriously though, I suppose G4M did their bit (although I don't know how long it took them to process the paperwork and get it to Roland), the main hold up has been at Roland, as far as I have been told.

As I said dude your contract is with G4M not Roland so don't accept that as a reason to wait any longer. See my comments on Dixons group farther up. If parts are proving difficult to come by (and they could be) they should have offered you either

A - direct replacement if they have any
B - a credit note to the original value you paid
C - the replacement Roland model for the same money
D - a refund ( always going to be their last option)

When they get the repaired product back they then sell it as reconditioned. That's how id have dealt with your particular case. As it stands is be amazed if you shopped with them again.

Bellycaster · April 2015

Thanks @Adam_MD

As in my last comment, the credit note would be nice for a brief Gassing flirtation ;-)

Don't think I want a replacement even the newer model for the same money.

Time for a brief perusal at pedals me thinks.

hehe.

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DEFECTIVE GOODS WITHIN WARRANTY: