Is Jeff Beck the most innovative guitarist ever?

monquixote

Fretwired said:

Jimi was great but the likes of Beck and Holdsworth eclipsed what he did - who knows what would have happened if Jimi had lived. He was due to record with Miles Davis which would have pushed him. Beck is unique.

I think you have to define innovate - Van Halen is good but hardly innovative. Tapping's been around since the dawn of stringed instruments and Steve Hacket was doing it in Genesis long before Eddie came along.

If you ask Steve Vai there's only one guy - Alan Holdsworth. Vai admitted he couldn't actually work out what Holdsworth was doing most of the time.

It depends what you mean by innovation.

I've been playing guitar for 25 years and I couldn't hum / name anything by Alan Holdsworth.

For me music is only innovative if it's both new and people want to listen to it and get inspired. Hendrix, Van Halen, Jonny Greenwood, Tom Morello they made new sounds and inspired millions.

fandango

Thomas Blug - one of the very very few guitarists to combine so many different styles into a single ‘piece’ and yet maintain a melody all the way through.
David Gilmour after he joined Floyd, but before DSOtM. Yes i know he’s not as ‘technical’ as Jeff B or many others, but who said you had to be technical to be innovative?
Having said that, Tommy Emmanuel manages to combine technique with musicality thats far to rare in guitarists.
Billy TK (of Human Instinct from New Zealand) - could knock spots off Jimi Hendrix
Steve Howe - so very rarely gets a mention in this forum, it’s a criminal neglect this forum should bow it’s head in shame, has proved a wonderfully gifted player in both Yes and Asia as well as in his own right. Who can’t fail to appreciate Mood for a Day from Fragile?
Robert Fripp - like with Steve Howe, so rarely gets a mention.

Winny_Pooh

monquixote said:

Fretwired said:

Jimi was great but the likes of Beck and Holdsworth eclipsed what he did - who knows what would have happened if Jimi had lived. He was due to record with Miles Davis which would have pushed him. Beck is unique.

I think you have to define innovate - Van Halen is good but hardly innovative. Tapping's been around since the dawn of stringed instruments and Steve Hacket was doing it in Genesis long before Eddie came along.

If you ask Steve Vai there's only one guy - Alan Holdsworth. Vai admitted he couldn't actually work out what Holdsworth was doing most of the time.

It depends what you mean by innovation.

I've been playing guitar for 25 years and I couldn't hum / name anything by Alan Holdsworth.

For me music is only innovative if it's both new and people want to listen to it and get inspired. Hendrix, Van Halen, Jonny Greenwood, Tom Morello they made new sounds and inspired millions.

But you'd be surprised how many players you have heard of, including Van Halen from your list, are inspired by Holdsworth.

McSwaggerty

I saw Jeff Beck play last year.....
One word - Oaft ! 

relic245

fandango said:

Steve Howe - so very rarely gets a mention in this forum, it’s a criminal neglect this forum should bow it’s head in shame, has proved a wonderfully gifted player in both Yes and Asia as well as in his own right. Who can’t fail to appreciate Mood for a Day from Fragile?

Wiz. 

His slide playing on going for the one is sublime too

AlexC

Beck is a brilliant guitarist. My personal favourite. Thing is - it’s not just his technique but the musicality of his playing. And despite his impressive ability he doesn’t just wank off like some other players I could mention. Listen to his last album - Loud Hailer, for example. He’s put himself back in a band format with a vocalist. It’s modern alt rock. He moves forward.
Van Halen is, despite his undoubted ability, dated to listen to and had the misfortune of being in a cock rock sub-metal band. (Artistic misfortune, not commercial...) Heard his famous solo on Beat It playing in a shop the other day. What a squealing racket with no link or melodic reference or context to the song.
Hendrix - obviously influential and a great player. But we don’t know what he’d be doing now. The old hits? Something very different? We’ll never know. But, for me, much of his music is bogged down by not very strong songs (he wasn’t a terrific singer, was he?) and a lot of psychedelic whishy whooshy noise which...er...is of its time. I know he was moving away from that with Band Of Gypsys... but we can only speculate.

fretmeister

No. 

Teetonetal

AlexC said:

Beck is a brilliant guitarist. My personal favourite. Thing is - it’s not just his technique but the musicality of his playing. And despite his impressive ability he doesn’t just wank off like some other players I could mention. Listen to his last album - Loud Hailer, for example. He’s put himself back in a band format with a vocalist. It’s modern alt rock. He moves forward.
Van Halen is, despite his undoubted ability, dated to listen to and had the misfortune of being in a cock rock sub-metal band. (Artistic misfortune, not commercial...) Heard his famous solo on Beat It playing in a shop the other day. What a squealing racket with no link or melodic reference or context to the song.
Hendrix - obviously influential and a great player. But we don’t know what he’d be doing now. The old hits? Something very different? We’ll never know. But, for me, much of his music is bogged down by not very strong songs (he wasn’t a terrific singer, was he?) and a lot of psychedelic whishy whooshy noise which...er...is of its time. I know he was moving away from that with Band Of Gypsys... but we can only speculate.

Actually, I think Hendrix' singing is a huge part of the sound of those records, it's laid back, expressive and and just blends in with the guitar playing seamlessly. You can always tell a good singer by how shit everyone else sounds when covering their songs.. nearly all hendrix wannabe's miss the vocal vibe completely.

ionian

They all stand on the shoulders of those who went before. Those later innovators wouldn't have been in their place without the older greats, and the older greats were standing on the shoulders of names that have since been lost to time. There's no subjective measure possible.

But of course that's boring, so my vote goes to Jimi. Unless you like Dragonforce, in which case it's Brian May on an acid trip. 

ToneControl

I'd rather listen to any recent Beck album rather than any Hendrix album

pintspiller

To be honest, the first time I heard him do that thing with the sustain and whammy was amazing (might have been Guitar Shop). But apart from the Les Paul thing and Gene Vincent thing it's all I've heard since, and I find it repeatative.

What he did with the JB Group was generally great though. Jimmy Page stole some of his thunder with Led Zep though.

fendergibson

No. I’ve tried to enjoy Beck’s music a few times and apart from a few moments it just leaves me cold. Fully appreciate the skill but song wise doesn’t do anything for me.

I’ll go Hendrix, Atkins and Vai (who’s Passion and Warfare album opened up an entirely new world of guitar and composition for me)

duotone

monquixote said:

My experience is that most non guitarists find Becks modern playing quite annoying to listen to.

Yep, I remember an old guitar magazine doing a Top 25 most influential guitar albums & saying that Jeff was ‘the guitarists, favourite guitarist” although he didn’t make the list.  Jimi Hendrix’s 1st Album/ Nirvana’s Nevermind / SRV’s Texas Flood did make the list though.

ArchtopDave

Charlie Christian - everyone else followed on after him.

sweepy

Beck, like a Holdsworth is one of the few Guitarists that has evolved and refused to sit on his laurels, I could listen to those two for the rest of my days and still find new things and delights

Fretwired

monquixote said:

It depends what you mean by innovation.

I've been playing guitar for 25 years and I couldn't hum / name anything by Alan Holdsworth.

For me music is only innovative if it's both new and people want to listen to it and get inspired. Hendrix, Van Halen, Jonny Greenwood, Tom Morello they made new sounds and inspired millions.

I agree - it depends what you mean by innovation. Is it groundbreaking and innovative or just good bands with great songs and a super live act? I merely quoted Vai on Holdsworth — you can Google his interview. You can get an album by Jan Akkerman recorded in the 1960s and he's shredding like Van Halen. People didn't know what to think of it so it bombed. The world was into blues rock. In fairness Jan learnt this from two brothers from Indonesia who gave him guitar lessons - there are some videos of them from the late 50s. Malmsteen and EvH would have trouble keeping up with them - distorted amps and shredding. Nobody outside the Netherlands ever heard them. They also played Les Paul's which weren't fashionable.

True innovators are often overlooked as they are ahead of their time.

Philly_Q

Fretwired said:

You can get an album by Jan Akkerman recorded in the 1960s and he's shredding like Van Halen. People didn't know what to think of it so it bombed. The world was into blues rock. In fairness Jan learnt this from two brothers from Indonesia who gave him guitar lessons - there are some videos of them from the late 50s. 

The Van Halens are brothers born in the Netherlands and their mother's from Indonesia....

Coincidence, or....?

axisus

Jimi and Holdsworth for me.

I think that Jeff is the most nuanced player ever though. An exquisite touch the like of which we haven't seen from anyone else.

Teetonetal

Oh and if we are discussing 60's guitarists then right up there should be richard thompson

BintyTwanger77

No-one's mentioned Johnny Marr yet. Not flashy, but I think he was monumentally influential, innovative, and shaped how 1000s of bands have used guitars subsequently.