Pick angle

Hootsmon

is this the 45 - 90 degree pick angle style folks go on about? (this guy has great tone BTW)

how does this angle malarky work.....? is it the edge of the pick that is towards the headstock that strikes the string.......the topside edge of the pick when using upstrokes and the underside of the same edge when using downstrokes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhxCGg6GAow

bingefeller

Best lessons on pick angles:

Hootsmon

trying to find out what the forum members think about pick angles Bing as these website give me a headache with technical jargon

thanks bro 

bingefeller

hootsmon said:

trying to find out what the forum members think about pick angles Bing as these website give me a headache with technical jargon

thanks bro 

I will take a picture tomorrow of how I hold my pick and post it here for you.

ElectroDan

I don't think I'm going to be able to explain it better than the Troy Grady videos show it. But there are two angles to consider.

Firstly - the angle at which your pick contacts the string. If your pick was perfectly aligned with the string, then the whole side of the pick would contact the string when picking. This would be too much and make the pick stroke too stiff. Angle the pick slightly so that on a down-stroke the left hand bottom edge contacts the string, and on an upstroke the right hand upper edge contacts the string. you will need to experiment with the amount of angle, as too much will spoil the crispness of the attack. (I know this is not how every guitar player does it, but it does seem to be the majority).

Secondly - the angle your pick attacks the string relative to the top of the guitar. This is what all the Downward pick slanting jargon is about. I tend to do this, and so do a lot of the players I admire (according to Mr Grady). When you preform a downstroke, the pick actually moves in toward the guitar body (so it is in between the string you've just picked and the one below). When the upstroke occurs the pick comes away from the body and free of the strings, making it easy to change to another string on the next downstroke.

Hope this helps.

Phil_aka_Pip

I found my tone was more pleasing when the pick hits the string parallel to it (@ElectroDan's first point, which I'm contradicting). I think I agree with his second point.

ElectroDan

There is no one RIGHT way to pick (I can only offer my own findings). If you're making the sound you want to hear and don't find it hinders your picking, then you're doing it right.
I tend to use the pick flat when I want notes to snap out a bit more. But for quicker runs, I'll always automatically angle the edge slightly.
As you look at one of my used picks, the right hand edge is always worn.

Clarky

ElectroDan said:

I don't think I'm going to be able to explain it better than the Troy Grady videos show it. But there are two angles to consider.

Firstly - the angle at which your pick contacts the string. If your pick was perfectly aligned with the string, then the whole side of the pick would contact the string when picking. This would be too much and make the pick stroke too stiff. Angle the pick slightly so that on a down-stroke the left hand bottom edge contacts the string, and on an upstroke the right hand upper edge contacts the string. you will need to experiment with the amount of angle, as too much will spoil the crispness of the attack. (I know this is not how every guitar player does it, but it does seem to be the majority).

Secondly - the angle your pick attacks the string relative to the top of the guitar. This is what all the Downward pick slanting jargon is about. I tend to do this, and so do a lot of the players I admire (according to Mr Grady). When you preform a downstroke, the pick actually moves in toward the guitar body (so it is in between the string you've just picked and the one below). When the upstroke occurs the pick comes away from the body and free of the strings, making it easy to change to another string on the next downstroke.

Hope this helps.

I pick as described in you "secondly" comment.. so I have a slight downward slant..

but I do the reverse to your "firstly" comment.. I angle the pick but in the opposite direction so it's the trailing rather than the leading edge striking the string on the down stroke.. I have no idea if that makes much of a difference.. but it seems to work for me..

the principle difficulty that Grady rightly points out is being able to change string without snagging or making unwanted contact with another.. the downward slant certainly help this..

personally though I think this is only part of it.. different phrases / licks seem to suit different picking techniques.. so I've found there there's no "one size fits all" solution.. I have a "one size fits most" solution with a small collection of other techniques that are better suited to other situations..

Clarky

Phil_aka_Pip said:

I found my tone was more pleasing when the pick hits the string parallel to it (@ElectroDan's first point, which I'm contradicting). I think I agree with his second point.

interestingly, I find my tone is better picking down onto the string rather than across it..

I also find this playing finger style [classical], that making the string vibrating in a more vertical rather than horizontal direction has a bigger / sweeter tone.. I was reading various technique lessons by Fredrick Noad and he encourages this picking method.. when I applied the same approach on the electric with a pick I found it still held true [my personal opinion here..]..

bingefeller

Alright Hootsy here's how I hold my pick...

This is the standard way.  I'm not really sure what sort of angle this is.

Sometimes I hold my pick like this. I find this way the pick slices through the strings better and I can relax my grip a lot more. I've been holding it like this on and off for about 7 years now:

ElectroDan

@Clarky I found after watching the Cracking the code vid's that I'd discovered most of it by trial and (plenty of) error. They did make me even more analytical of my own technique though and as you've said, which techniques I use for which licks.

I suppose to angle the pick your way you have to kink your thumb back in the middle do you? It feels so alien as I'm trying it. But it's what you get used to isn't it. I was surprised when Troy grady explained that Vinnie Moore used upward pick slanting, as that is also kind of opposite to how I'd been doing it for years. But who am I to argue with a picker like Vinnie Moore! I'll let Yngwie Malmsteen tell him he's wrong.

)

Clarky

bingefeller said:

Sometimes I hold my pick like this. I find this way the pick slices through the strings better and I can relax my grip a lot more. I've been holding it like this on and off for about 7 years now:

this is how I hold the pick too.. down-stroke trailing edge..

Clarky

ElectroDan said:

@Clarky I found after watching the Cracking the code vid's that I'd discovered most of it by trial and (plenty of) error. They did make me even more analytical of my own technique though and as you've said, which techniques I use for which licks.

I suppose to angle the pick your way you have to kink your thumb back in the middle do you? It feels so alien as I'm trying it. But it's what you get used to isn't it. I was surprised when Troy grady explained that Vinnie Moore used upward pick slanting, as that is also kind of opposite to how I'd been doing it for years. But who am I to argue with a picker like Vinnie Moore! I'll let Yngwie Malmsteen tell him he's wrong.

)

interestingly.. I watched the cracking the code thing too, and like you it made me look at myself more closely.. and yup, I found that I'm already doing something similar to some of the players [mostly the alternate picking / downward slant guys].. also, like Malmsteen, I use non-alternate picking for some licks too.. one thing I never do [which Malmsteen does] is deliberately work out note groupings so that string changes always occur after an up-stroke.. because I'll switch strings after any stroke.. I'd have to vid myself and slow it down to see how I'm clearing the strings [because I actually can't say that I know how I'm doing it.. only that I am.. which makes no sense to me.. lmao]

yes my thumb is planted in the middle of the pick, 1st finger is on the flat of the pick close to the leading edge, 2nd finger is actually up against the trailing edge..

try Dunlop Big Stubbie 3.0mm picks.. they have a big indentation in the middle to drop your thumb into.. that's when that grip starts to feel normal.. with regular flat / uncontroured picks, the thumb in the middle thing feels odd to me too [even though it's my normal grip]..

bingefeller

@Clarky are you back playing with the Jim Dunlop Stubbys?  

Clarky

bingefeller said:

@Clarky are you back playing with the Jim Dunlop Stubbys?  

mostly yes... especially for rockin-and-a-rollin

the Timber Tones sound and feel wonderful... plus they have the indentation [like the stubbies] for the thumb.. but I'm chewing the tips up too quickly.. I can't go knocking out 5 squid on a pick that I melt in less than a month.. lmao so I use the Timbers for things that matter tone-wise like recording.. when I'm teaching or having a general tear-up for fun I'll switch to the stubbies

when I've fully destroyed my lil' Timber Tone collection [which shouldn't take too long] I may give the Read Bear pics a try

bingefeller

Clarky said:

bingefeller said:

@Clarky are you back playing with the Jim Dunlop Stubbys?  

mostly yes... especially for rockin-and-a-rollin

the Timber Tones sound and feel wonderful... plus they have the indentation [like the stubbies] for the thumb.. but I'm chewing the tips up too quickly.. I can't go knocking out 5 squid on a pick that I melt in less than a month.. lmao so I use the Timbers for things that matter tone-wise like recording.. when I'm teaching or having a general tear-up for fun I'll switch to the stubbies

when I've fully destroyed my lil' Timber Tone collection [which shouldn't take too long] I may give the Read Bear pics a try

Cool  Red Bear looks nice but I don't think I'd put the money into them.  Maybe at some point.  

Clarky

@bingefeller I just took a close look at my technique when I'm just going for it…

and surprise surprise…. sometimes I'm picking in the 'downward slant' plane, other times I'm very close to the same plane as the strings.. and sometimes it's trailing edge down, others it's leading edge down..

I seem to be mostly downward slant / leading edge when I riff or play more rhythmic figures..

and when I sprint the plane flattens to be more parallel with the strings and I switch to the trailing edge..

don't ask how this works cos I haven't a clue… it just feels natural to me..

I'm gonna look at this some more...

bingefeller

Clarky said:

@bingefeller I just took a close look at my technique when I'm just going for it…

and surprise surprise…. sometimes I'm picking in the 'downward slant' plane, other times I'm very close to the same plane as the strings.. and sometimes it's trailing edge down, others it's leading edge down..

I seem to be mostly downward slant / leading edge when I riff or play more rhythmic figures..

and when I sprint the plane flattens to be more parallel with the strings and I switch to the trailing edge..

don't ask how this works cos I haven't a clue… it just feels natural to me..

I'm gonna look at this some more...

I never really thought about pick angle either until I saw Troy Grady's videos on youtube.  It's interesting to play around and see what works best for you.  

Hootsmon

what the bloody hell is a trailing edge?

Hootsmon

Bing

in pic 3.......you are not rotating the pic at all but just moving the tip through the string up and down?

I am like one of those dart players at the mo who can't let go of the dart!!!!! my technique has fallen to pieces

ElectroDan

@bingefeller that is a huge angle you are holding the pick at in the first few pictures. I never get close to that.
I will try Clarky's Big Stubby - trailing edge technique later just to see how it feels.
For now though @hootsmon you are just going to have to spend a bit of time trying out a few of the different picking techniques and see what feels right for you. Experiment with differing angles of pick attack too. A quick consensus of members here has proven that there is definitely no one way of doing it right.