Pick angle

bingefeller

hootsmon said:

Bing

in pic 3.......you are not rotating the pic at all but just moving the tip through the string up and down?

yes that's right.  

Hootsmon

pic 5 looks like the opposite Bing to pic 3!  pic 3 more suited to downstroke attack whilst pic 5 looks to favour the upstroke!

Bingsy.....I am right in thinking that the path for the pick tip in picture 3 would be from bridge to cutaway

and the path of the "opposite" pic 5 would be from the controls to the upper horn?

yeah?

Hootsmon

thanks guys 

bingefeller

hootsmon said:

pic 5 looks like the opposite Bing to pic 3!  pic 3 more suited to downstroke attack whilst pic looks to favour the upstroke!

Bingsy.....I am right in thinking that the path for the pick tip in picture 3 would be from bridge to cutaway

and the path of the "opposite" pic 5 would be from the controls to the upper horn?

yeah?

yeah Hoots.  Pic 5 is a different way of how I hold my plectrum sometimes.  

The way I'm holding my plectrum in pic 5 makes alternate picking easier for me.  Because the tip of the plectrum is slicing through the strings I find it gives less tension and, because I'm holding the plec with two fingers and my thumb, I can relax my grip more.  

Hootsmon

hootsmon said:

what the bloody hell is a trailing edge?

the last part of the pic to pass through the string?

Roland

Last time we had a pick angle discussion I checked my stroke, and the pick was angled at about 20 degrees, which is where it has been for years.  Then I caught myself, in a live situation, reversing the angle mid song to get a different pick attack sound.  Are you guys sure that you always perform what you practice?

bingefeller

Roland said:

Last time we had a pick angle discussion I checked my stroke, and the pick was angled at about 20 degrees, which is where it has been for years.  Then I caught myself, in a live situation, reversing the angle mid song to get a different pick attack sound.  Are you guys sure that you always perform what you practice?

Absolutely 100% certain.

Clarky

hootsmon said:

hootsmon said:

what the bloody hell is a trailing edge?

the last part of the pic to pass through the string?

think of it as the leading edge faces toward the headstock and the trailing edge toward the bridge

maybe front and rear edges could make more sense?

anyways.. angle the pick one way and the downstroke would make the front / leading edge hit the string

angle it the other [holding the pick with the thumb and two fingers] and the trailing / rear hits the string with a downstroke..

either way, the principle is not to hit the string with the flat side of the pick to prevent it snagging in the strings..

because with a slight angle either way, the pick's tip will glide across the strings more easily..

Clarky

Roland said:

Last time we had a pick angle discussion I checked my stroke, and the pick was angled at about 20 degrees, which is where it has been for years.  Then I caught myself, in a live situation, reversing the angle mid song to get a different pick attack sound.  Are you guys sure that you always perform what you practice?

the more I look at this the more I notice my pick angle changing and switching depending on what I'm playing and where I am along the neck..

when I've finished my recording sessions I'll look at this more closely

streethawk

bingefeller said:

yeah Hoots.  Pic 5 is a different way of how I hold my plectrum sometimes.  

The way I'm holding my plectrum in pic 5 makes alternate picking easier for me.  Because the tip of the plectrum is slicing through the strings I find it gives less tension and, because I'm holding the plec with two fingers and my thumb, I can relax my grip more.  

I hold my pick the same way for picking out chords, feels more precise and easier to vary the amount of pressure between open strings and fretted. I think I started this after not using a pick at all for years - I had become very clumsy with the anchored/angled grip and was hitting strings with the skin of my fingers.I think this way of holding the pick moves your finger and thumb away from the strings a bit more.

Clarky

I've always thought that my picking technique is very consistent, no matter how I play [unless I'm playing funk or acoustic strummy stuff]..

I'm wondering if I've been 'noticing' these differences because I'm looking for them and so maybe not playing quite as naturally as I normally would..

I've decided to ignore the details in my technique for a while and just crack on until I get a suitable window of time to pay deeper attention to it..

thomasross20

One big thing I noticed recently - for years I've been putting a lot of pressure on the pick with the pad of my index finger. So even if I go into downward pick slanting its like I try to pick back into the guitar body during upstrokes. I'm trying to alleviate this now (honestly, so many little nuances - and tricky to do if you're gigging whilst adjusting technique!) and it seems to help massively. I've not got that strong a grip on the pick now (tension is always a bad thing!) and it's just gliding past the string like nobody's business. Next week I'll probably have changed my mind...

thomasross20

bingefeller - looks like you do it the George Benson way!!

thomasross20

ElectroDan said:

I don't think I'm going to be able to explain it better than the Troy Grady videos show it. But there are two angles to consider.

Firstly - the angle at which your pick contacts the string. If your pick was perfectly aligned with the string, then the whole side of the pick would contact the string when picking. This would be too much and make the pick stroke too stiff. Angle the pick slightly so that on a down-stroke the left hand bottom edge contacts the string, and on an upstroke the right hand upper edge contacts the string. you will need to experiment with the amount of angle, as too much will spoil the crispness of the attack. (I know this is not how every guitar player does it, but it does seem to be the majority).

Secondly - the angle your pick attacks the string relative to the top of the guitar. This is what all the Downward pick slanting jargon is about. I tend to do this, and so do a lot of the players I admire (according to Mr Grady). When you preform a downstroke, the pick actually moves in toward the guitar body (so it is in between the string you've just picked and the one below). When the upstroke occurs the pick comes away from the body and free of the strings, making it easy to change to another string on the next downstroke.

Hope this helps.

Great explanation. Seen the new Steve Morse vid? 

Clarky

the thing to note here is that the natural pick angle and slant will be determined by your grip..

GuyBoden

Good posts, those "Cracking the Code" videos have made very interesting viewing over the years, using a wide variety of players. Big thanks to Troy Grady.

Hootsmon

^ has he done a john McLaughlin yet?

bingefeller

hootsmon said:

^ has he done a john McLaughlin yet?

I think he briefly mentioned John McLaughlin in his Masters in Mechanics series and, IIRC, McLaughlin is an upward pick slanter.  Watch how Jeff Kollman holds his pick here between 40 and 45 seconds:

Hootsmon

all this perpendicular to the plane of the x axis body is giving me a headache.......you got a linky for where it says McLaughlin is an "up slanter?"

bingefeller

hootsmon said:

all this perpendicular to the plane of the x axis body is giving me a headache.......you got a linky for where it says McLaughlin is an "up slanter?"

http://troygrady.com/2015/01/08/the-difference-between-pickslanting-and-edge-picking/

If downward pickslanting allows upstrokes to break free of the strings, then upward pickslanting is exactly the reverse. If you’ve watched our Antigravity seminar, then you’ve already seen upward pickslanting at work in the amazing techniques of Michael Angelo Batio, Vinnie Moore, Al Di Meola, John McLaughlin, and Paul Gilbert. Of course, we’ll also see upward pickslanting in later episodes of Cracking the Code Season 2.