The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

Heartfeltdawn

peter1 said:

But surely being a good politician counts as well? You might have the best policies in the world but if you're too incompetent to implement them properly, then it doesn't matter how good your policies are.

Few politicians have to implement policies. That's where the behind the scenes staff and the Civil Service come into it. A politician is the front of the operation. Your average MP doesn't write their own manifesto let alone devise and implement policy. The Downing Street Policy Unit is virtually anonymous to the person in the street but it is the cornerstone of policy for a ruling government. 

TheBigDipper

peter1 said:

TheBigDipper said:

capo4th said:

Thanks man you know a vote for the Conservative party makes sense as Labour have no fuckin idea on anything whatsoever just ask Corbyn or Dianne Jabba Abbott. 

Like all votes, it might make sense for the party to get your vote but you really need to be confident that the party makes sense for you. It's not a beauty contest for the best politicians. It's going to elect a government with an agenda and policies that will affect the country. Even bad politicians can deliver good policies. 

This isn't anti or pro any particular party. I'm just trying to keep my focus on the policies, not the people. The people get changed all the time. 

But surely being a good politician counts as well? You might have the best policies in the world but if you're too incompetent to implement them properly, then it doesn't matter how good your policies are.

Nothing like as much as you might think. Competence is just a weapon used by one side against another because they think they'll get some votes from the public as a result. The Civil Service do the implementing, not the politicians. 

Just look at how much the political dialogue in the UK and elsewhere has now reduced itself to slogans, insults and lies - instead of talking to us like the adults we are. Stupid slogans to persuade stupid people. And a stupid person has the same vote as you - so use it wisely. 

Winning votes is no different to selling something in a competitive situation. The strategy for that is very simple. Ignore the things you both do well, build up the importance of the things you do much better than the other side and reduce the importance of the things they do better than you. Typical Conservative vs Labour example might be...

"Strong leadership is important - he can't even manage his own MPs." That says nothing about policies and focuses on a weak area for Corbyn. 

Evilmags

Does Corbyn have any concrete funded policies? Not seen any so far, Just unrealistic crap that pursues the low grade intellects that read the Canary.  

VimFuego

technically none of them have any funded policies as they will just borrow the money to do whatever they want then claim after that that was what the intended to do all along. After all, I keep seeing tribal tories claim osbourne was a good chancellor!!!

TheBigDipper

Evilmags said:

Does Corbyn have any concrete funded policies? Not seen any so far, Just unrealistic crap that pursues the low grade intellects that read the Canary.  

I've not seen anyones policies so far... Are the party manifestos available yet? I'll reserve comment until I do. The selective dissemination by the media and social media isn't helpful.

Evilmags

VimFuego said:

technically none of them have any funded policies as they will just borrow the money to do whatever they want then claim after that that was what the intended to do all along. After all, I keep seeing tribal tories claim osbourne was a good chancellor!!!

Osbourne had about as much a clue in accounts and finance as Mary Witehouse in a glory hole. He needs a dictionary. Look up investment and splurge. Learn the difference. Hammond is no better. And to think we needed actual proof of being able to do accounts before being allowed our old jobs!!!!

scrumhalf

Evilmags said:

Does Corbyn have any concrete funded policies? Not seen any so far, Just unrealistic crap that pursues the low grade intellects that read the Canary.  

You don't need them, all you have to do is go to the money tree and shake it for a while, watch the pounds come crashing down.

Heartfeltdawn

TheBigDipper said:

peter1 said:

TheBigDipper said:

capo4th said:

Thanks man you know a vote for the Conservative party makes sense as Labour have no fuckin idea on anything whatsoever just ask Corbyn or Dianne Jabba Abbott. 

Like all votes, it might make sense for the party to get your vote but you really need to be confident that the party makes sense for you. It's not a beauty contest for the best politicians. It's going to elect a government with an agenda and policies that will affect the country. Even bad politicians can deliver good policies. 

This isn't anti or pro any particular party. I'm just trying to keep my focus on the policies, not the people. The people get changed all the time. 

But surely being a good politician counts as well? You might have the best policies in the world but if you're too incompetent to implement them properly, then it doesn't matter how good your policies are.

Nothing like as much as you might think. Competence is just a weapon used by one side against another because they think they'll get some votes from the public as a result. The Civil Service do the implementing, not the politicians. 

Just look at how much the political dialogue in the UK and elsewhere has now reduced itself to slogans, insults and lies - instead of talking to us like the adults we are. Stupid slogans to persuade stupid people. And a stupid person has the same vote as you - so use it wisely. 

Winning votes is no different to selling something in a competitive situation. The strategy for that is very simple. Ignore the things you both do well, build up the importance of the things you do much better than the other side and reduce the importance of the things they do better than you. Typical Conservative vs Labour example might be...

"Strong leadership is important - he can't even manage his own MPs." That says nothing about policies and focuses on a weak area for Corbyn. 

This is what I was getting at with how elections in this country have come away from the manifestos and proceeded along slandering your opponents. There are reasons for that, not least because fucking up on an element of your manifesto can cost you votes: calling your nearest opponent a useless twat doesn't lose you votes. In the past negative politics was supposed to bring about voter apathy: in General Elections since the low of 2001, negative politics has been the norm and turnout is up. 

Heartfeltdawn

TheBigDipper said:

Evilmags said:

Does Corbyn have any concrete funded policies? Not seen any so far, Just unrealistic crap that pursues the low grade intellects that read the Canary.  

I've not seen anyones policies so far... Are the party manifestos available yet? I'll reserve comment until I do. The selective dissemination by the media and social media isn't helpful.

Not out yet and I would doubt they will be out before Parliament is officially dissolved at midnight May 2nd. Catherine Haddon has an excellent timeline of how events will proceed. 

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/countdown-election-2017-what-timetable-looks

capo4th

scrumhalf said:

Evilmags said:

Does Corbyn have any concrete funded policies? Not seen any so far, Just unrealistic crap that pursues the low grade intellects that read the Canary.  

You don't need them, all you have to do is go to the money tree and shake it for a while, watch the pounds come crashing down.

That is Corbyns manifesto right there. He has no clue how he will pay for his free school meals, pensions, free NHS for anyone in the world that wants it or his weapons to shoot down any rich person who earns more than £75000 a year and lives in London but has a £500000 mortgage to pay. Corbyn will need a huge money tree ! Boom and Bust with Labour every time complete idiots. 

Heartfeltdawn

@capo4th You're so so so wrong. Corbyn won't be Boom and Bust. He's so good at economics, he will save time by not bothering to do the Boom bit. 

capo4th

So true we are in great shape and the country is ticking along nicely. Everyone in work who wants to work and low interest rates. We need stability to negotiate Brexit.

Anyone who considers putting him in power really needs their head examining.

ThorpyFX

I'm no fan of corbyn  but can any of the tory fans explain how with austerity in place since 2010 and seemingly a lot of belt tightening across the board, how have the tories managed to increase the deficit? and not just a little bit- they have doubled it? 

It kind of runs counter to their claims for fiscal responsibility?

capo4th

It's only money man ! Labour would have quadrupled it and given everyone a free chocolate muffin

VimFuego

capo4th said:

It's only money man ! Labour would have quadrupled it and given everyone a free chocolate muffin

this is one of those silly tribal things that gets said, treating politics like it's a football team. It's unprovable and irrelevent, the only facts are what the government actually did, not what any prejudices you hold may say.

capo4th

We have been in debt for decades we are actually in much better shape with the debt and national deficit over the last few years. The treasury and HMRC are raking it in.

Labour left a note last time they were in government ....

VimFuego

oh lordy, not that old cliche about the note, can't believe people actually believe it

ThorpyFX

capo4th said:

We have been in debt for decades we are actually in much better shape with the debt and national deficit over the last few years. The treasury and HMRC are raking it in.

Labour left a note last time they were in government ....

yes i know we have been in debt for decades, what i want answers to is why if we have had 7 years of belt tightening to reduce the deficit has it doubled?

capo4th

The deficit between government income and expenditure is down which deficit are you referring to? 

capo4th

£15 billion approx down from £100 billion after the crash 2010