The Theresa May General Election thread (edited)

randella

ThePrettyDamned said:
I don't think apathy can be ignored at the moment. It seems like everyone is quite fired up (well, talking about politics at least) but in reality there are a lot of people who just feel like it's a group of elites with nothing in mind but their own career, regardless of party.

I think both big parties are trying, in their own way to address that.

Over in the Tory camp, you've got May doing exactly what @ICBM correctly called out Blair for - pilfering the other side's policy in a bid to hoover up the centrist voters.  She's gunning for the 'everyman' vote, she's even been to Wales for Christ's sake.  She must think she's in with a shot otherwise she'd not have bothered like every other Tory leader for the last 80 years.  She was quick enough to get rid of the old Etonian Osborne after Cameron walked, and immediately started with the one-nation flannel.

The received wisdom is that she's gone to the country to strengthen her hand in the Brexit negotiations, but there's also a whiff of suspicion that she's trying to increase her mandate to get a grip on the loonies on the right of the party knowing full well that they're the ones who really do look like the money-grubbing elite (Johnson's unfathomable popularity among the anti-elite Brexit camp excepted).

We know all about Corbyn's anti-establishment comedy routine, no point going in to that here.

Thing is, to get back to your point: how believable are they?  I don't trust either of them, as far as I can see they're both driven by power and career.

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

Politicians can have beliefs but they should keep them private. If you want to preach God to the electorate become a priest. Blair was a practising Catholic, but I never heard him banging on about religion or saying abortion was a sin.

A reasonable proposal that doesn't apply in this case because Farron hasn't been preaching about his religion. Preachy about Brexit, not preachy about the beardy sky chap. 

Blair did indeed mention religion and the like of Matthew D'Ancona held Blair up as the most religious leader since Gladstone. His appearance on Parkinson was the highlight. However he did keep the God mentions to a minimum because he was told to do that. Alistair Campbell was an atheist and adamant that New Labour weren't going to do God. Campbell also stated in his diaries that Blair often read the Bible prior to taking decisions.

Now I don't have a problem with Farron as stated. We are seeing some evolution in society, the wonderful vote in Ireland in 2015 being a prime example. There is the clash of the old institutions against more enlightened thoughts. In Farron, you have this clash existing inside and so far I think he's got it fairly right. 

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

And maybe the tax payer has to fund political parties to ensure they're not just a front for Union bosses or big business.

It is very doable. I spent two weeks with the Electoral Commission on a project discussing that very subject in 2008 and the consensus was that you could fund it through some gentle stripping of the royalty budget. The hard part would be deciding what constituted a party in order to receive funding as that would lead to a strong likelihood of legal challenges that could delay any election. Budgetary caps on spending and far greater transparency in where the cash comes from would at least not face such challenges. 

ThePrettyDamned

randella said:

ThePrettyDamned said:
I don't think apathy can be ignored at the moment. It seems like everyone is quite fired up (well, talking about politics at least) but in reality there are a lot of people who just feel like it's a group of elites with nothing in mind but their own career, regardless of party.

I think both big parties are trying, in their own way to address that.

Over in the Tory camp, you've got May doing exactly what @ICBM correctly called out Blair for - pilfering the other side's policy in a bid to hoover up the centrist voters.  She's gunning for the 'everyman' vote, she's even been to Wales for Christ's sake.  She must think she's in with a shot otherwise she'd not have bothered like every other Tory leader for the last 80 years.  She was quick enough to get rid of the old Etonian Osborne after Cameron walked, and immediately started with the one-nation flannel.

The received wisdom is that she's gone to the country to strengthen her hand in the Brexit negotiations, but there's also a whiff of suspicion that she's trying to increase her mandate to get a grip on the loonies on the right of the party knowing full well that they're the ones who really do look like the money-grubbing elite (Johnson's unfathomable popularity among the anti-elite Brexit camp excepted).

We know all about Corbyn's anti-establishment comedy routine, no point going in to that here.

Thing is, to get back to your point: how believable are they?  I don't trust either of them, as far as I can see they're both driven by power and career.

They're not. U turn after u turn and empty promises have led to a population who just don't like politicians. 

ICBM

Heartfeltdawn said:

Campbell also stated in his diaries that Blair often read the Bible prior to taking decisions.

In my opinion Blair's religion is likely to be a major contributor to his messianic zeal for interfering in the Middle East, and one of the reasons he can't admit, probably even to himself, that it was a disastrously bad thing to do despite the overwhelming evidence that it was.

Heartfeltdawn

Quite likely. Leaders who believe in God whose actions fly in their face of their religion are puzzling creatures. Take this article about the decoding of the human genome featuring words from then President Clinton. BC was an undoubted influence on Blair and I imagine the two must have discussed faith at some point. 

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/11/bill_clintons_surprising_faith_from_childhood_through_monica_lewinsky_the_real_story_of_the_presidents_belief_in_god/

Fretwired

:-)

Heartfeltdawn

Under future pension plans, she won't be able to afford that walker, thus reducing the crime statistics even further. So we lower the deficit, reduce police expenditure, and reduce local authority expenditure (graffiti removal). WIN!

scrumhalf

ThePrettyDamned said:

They're not. U turn after u turn and empty promises have led to a population who just don't like politicians. 

U-turn after u-turn surely means you're going back in your original direction.

Sporky

Yeah, but they're doing it with the handbrake, knocking wheelie bins and pensioners all over the place.

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Under future pension plans, she won't be able to afford that walker, thus reducing the crime statistics even further. So we lower the deficit, reduce police expenditure, and reduce local authority expenditure (graffiti removal). WIN!

It was meant to be humorous ... the Tories won't pick on the old .. the triple lock is staying apparently.

May wiped the floor at PMQs with Corbyn and Farron .. the latter was particularly poor. I see her approval rating has jumped 10 points.

Evilmags

If the torise aren't on a 100 seat majority after the election I'll be surprised. Recent poll had them on 48% with 10 seats in Scotland. 

capo4th

May is the right woman for the job. Corbyn is a dinosaur funded by trade union idiots who continually grind the country to a halt.

People need to stop voting like their parents did 20-30 years ago and make the right decision.

DarnWeight

capo4th said:

May is the right woman for the job. Corbyn is a dinosaur funded by trade union idiots who continually grind the country to a halt.

People need to stop voting like their parents did 20-30 years ago and make the right decision.

Oh puh-lease.  When was the last time a strike caused the country to grind to a halt?  It sounds more like you're harking back 30 years.

The constant "strong and stable leadership" mantra is getting on my tits already, and we've still got weeks of this shit to wade through yet.

VimFuego

capo4th said:

May is the right woman for the job. Corbyn is a dinosaur funded by trade union idiots who continually grind the country to a halt.

People need to stop voting like their parents did 20-30 years ago and make the right decision.

well, nothing you've said has convinced me to vote tory, so I'll just have to trust my own intelligence and judgement and vote according to my principles. Hope that's ok with you tribalists.

ThePrettyDamned

scrumhalf said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

They're not. U turn after u turn and empty promises have led to a population who just don't like politicians. 

U-turn after u-turn surely means you're going back in your original direction.

Sporky said:

Yeah, but they're doing it with the handbrake, knocking wheelie bins and pensioners all over the place.

Just quoting genuine laugh out loud moments. Cheers, chaps!

Fretwired

VimFuego said:

capo4th said:

May is the right woman for the job. Corbyn is a dinosaur funded by trade union idiots who continually grind the country to a halt.

People need to stop voting like their parents did 20-30 years ago and make the right decision.

well, nothing you've said has convinced me to vote tory, so I'll just have to trust my own intelligence and judgement and vote according to my principles. Hope that's ok with you tribalists.

Kipper lover ... ;-)

VimFuego

Fretwired said:

VimFuego said:

capo4th said:

May is the right woman for the job. Corbyn is a dinosaur funded by trade union idiots who continually grind the country to a halt.

People need to stop voting like their parents did 20-30 years ago and make the right decision.

well, nothing you've said has convinced me to vote tory, so I'll just have to trust my own intelligence and judgement and vote according to my principles. Hope that's ok with you tribalists.

Kipper lover ... ;-)

when in Whitby and all that.

Fretwired

VimFuego said:

Fretwired said:

VimFuego said:

capo4th said:

May is the right woman for the job. Corbyn is a dinosaur funded by trade union idiots who continually grind the country to a halt.

People need to stop voting like their parents did 20-30 years ago and make the right decision.

well, nothing you've said has convinced me to vote tory, so I'll just have to trust my own intelligence and judgement and vote according to my principles. Hope that's ok with you tribalists.

Kipper lover ... ;-)

when in Whitby and all that.

I prefer good old fish and chips when I'm in Whitby ... the odd smoked kipper is nice though ...

Fretwired

scrumhalf said:

U-turn after u-turn surely means you're going back in your original direction.

We can all do the U-turn ..... ;-)