'Cool' snobbery (rant)

Drew_TNBD

"loyalty" stats:
https://insights.spotify.com/us/2015/04/02/loyalest-music-fans-by-genre/

ICBM

CabbageCat said:

I've seen some pretty snobby stuff about Nickleback and Phil Collins.

I can't stand Nickelback, but it's not because they're not cool. It's because they're shit.

Phil Collins is a seriously great drummer. He's also written some very good songs - and a lot of utter tosh. Sadly the tosh was generally more successful, so possibly that qualifies me for being snobby...

CabbageCat

ICBM said:

CabbageCat said:

I've seen some pretty snobby stuff about Nickleback and Phil Collins.

I can't stand Nickelback, but it's not because they're not cool. It's because they're shit.

Are you able to define why they are shit? I've heard it said a lot but never really understood what it was that's shit about them. They seem to play some fairly catchy songs as far as I can tell from the few I've heard.

professorben

ICBM said:

I'm not sure, but I may be the forum's biggest mainstream commercial pop music fan .

I also like other stuff, but I have no shame or 'guilty pleasure' in liking a lot of extremely uncool middle-of-the-road generic manufactured music too - I just like it. I see no reason not to, since it doesn't mean I can't also enjoy much more interesting and esoteric things as well.

I also don't do Facebook and never will.

I'm into waaaay more mainstream pop than you, like really popular, some of the stuff you think is pop is niche compared to the overwhelming banality of the music I'm into. 

professorben

CabbageCat said:

ICBM said:

CabbageCat said:

I've seen some pretty snobby stuff about Nickleback and Phil Collins.

I can't stand Nickelback, but it's not because they're not cool. It's because they're shit.

Are you able to define why they are shit? I've heard it said a lot but never really understood what it was that's shit about them. They seem to play some fairly catchy songs as far as I can tell from the few I've heard.

They have made more money than I have from music, soooooo guess shit is debatable. 

VimFuego

CabbageCat said:

ICBM said:

CabbageCat said:

I've seen some pretty snobby stuff about Nickleback and Phil Collins.

I can't stand Nickelback, but it's not because they're not cool. It's because they're shit.

Are you able to define why they are shit? I've heard it said a lot but never really understood what it was that's shit about them. They seem to play some fairly catchy songs as far as I can tell from the few I've heard.

I have to say I quite like nickelback, not enough to buy an album etc, but enough that I will enjoy listening to a track if it's on TV, the radio. It's pretty generic hard/dad rock kinda stuff, but it's well crafted, well played and so on. It represents the shallow end of music to me, but is not inherantly bad.

BintyTwanger77

I don't think anyone should be the absolute arbiter as to what is cool musically and what is not. A lot of music that is considered cool now takes its influences from a lot of bands and genres that were (until the modern influenced band came along) not considered cool at all. I think Wild Beasts are superb and they are steeped in unfashionable 80s influences. Vampire Weekend mixed African guitar music, Fleetwood Mac, and early Pink Floyd. Fleet Foxes channelled CSNY. Beirut used old brass band music from the Balkans! This is what music should be: inventive, interesting, wearing their love of music on their sleeve, regardless of how "cool" it's considered to be, and heartfelt.

On the other hand, you get a lot bands who are scene-chasers, trying to sound like the latest thing: as an older example, The Libertines (who I think only had one-and-a-half good albums) have a lot to answer for, with all the crap bands who tried to sound like them. A lot of this is driven by lazy A&R/record companies, though. That way, you get needless music "scenes", and it all gets a bit 'Nathan Barley' Shoreditch beard-twitch-hipster-twatty.

There is no objective standard of "cool" in music, it's what sounds good or not to you. I don't hate Coldplay, Supertramp, Starship or whoever because they're not cool, it's because I think they make terrible music.

A lot of what I listen to might be considered cool by some people, but that's irrelevant. I will happily have 'Maggie May', 'Jump' (Van Halen) and 'The Impossible Dream' on the same playlist as Ringo Deathstarr, Twilight Sad, Donny Hathaway and Public Service Broadcasting, because it all sounds fantastic, irrespective of any bullshit "cool" factor.

Fuck music snobbery. Fuck it in the ear.

Ravenous

My confessional: I'm a snob too, despite knocking snobs earlier.

I have never liked Prince. I will readily admit he was probably a genius in terms of songwriting, bits of his guitar playing are astonishing, I probably even own a few songs he wrote without knowing it.  But I just can never own records by someone who wears heels like that. (It's his whole image really.)

Though I would never shun anyone who's a fan of his. That's what the OP is complaining about (I hope).

kaypeejay

Drew_TNBD said:

I just like music.

The truth is, in my line of work and my life in general I'm just not exposed to much pop music. It doesn't really happen.

If you look at what genres are most commonly bought, rock music is right up there:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/276213/genre-distribution-of-music-album-unit-sales-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

You wouldn't know it if you just followed mainstream music outlets though.

That link said I had to pay before I could view the statistics. I'm even too uncool for that!

ICBM

CabbageCat said:

Are you able to define why they are shit? I've heard it said a lot but never really understood what it was that's shit about them. They seem to play some fairly catchy songs as far as I can tell from the few I've heard.

Utterly derivative clichéd rock music with moronic lyrics which all sounds the same. That alone probably isn't enough to completely damn them, but they're just so full of themselves - or at least the 'singer' is. If you want to like them that's fair enough… I like shit music too! Just not that particular kind of shit .

kaypeejay

ICBM said:

CabbageCat said:

Are you able to define why they are shit? I've heard it said a lot but never really understood what it was that's shit about them. They seem to play some fairly catchy songs as far as I can tell from the few I've heard.

Utterly derivative clichéd rock music with moronic lyrics which all sounds the same. That alone probably isn't enough to completely damn them, but they're just so full of themselves - or at least the 'singer' is. If you want to like them that's fair enough… I like shit music too! Just not that particular kind of shit .

I have relatively narrow tastes in music and often wonder how people could possibly like this band or that band. People often tell me I like shit music but to me it is the best thing in the world. One man's music is another man's noise. It's the same with cool!

CabbageCat

ICBM said:

CabbageCat said:

Are you able to define why they are shit? I've heard it said a lot but never really understood what it was that's shit about them. They seem to play some fairly catchy songs as far as I can tell from the few I've heard.

Utterly derivative clichéd rock music with moronic lyrics which all sounds the same. That alone probably isn't enough to completely damn them, but they're just so full of themselves - or at least the 'singer' is. If you want to like them that's fair enough… I like shit music too! Just not that particular kind of shit .

Being derivative is an accusation that can be made of just about any band. And if it's derived from or a cliché of something good (presumably you consider Nickleback to be an evolution of Bon Jovi/Aerosmith style rock) then it's not the music itself that's the problem, just that it came after other bands that did a similar thing.

I dunno about the lyrics criticism - I only know a couple of songs (the "This is how you remind me..." one and Rockstar) and they seem to have fairly well-considered, narrative lyrics to me. A lot less barmy than the Killers (who I also like).

Their music is uncomplicated, maybe, but "shit" seems like unfair criticism.

Danji

I still listen to It Bites, (original line-up)...

Now that's seriously uncool! 

BintyTwanger77

Danji said:

I still listen to It Bites, (original line-up)...

Now that's seriously uncool! 

"Calling all the heroooeeees...." 

FX_Munkee

Is this the right room for banal music appreciators anonymous?

CabbageCat

kaypeejay said:

One man's music is another man's noise. It's the same with cool!

Indeed, which is why statements like, "I don't like it because it's shit" don't sit well with me. It's an objective statement. Everyone knows in their head that it's a subjective opinion but I don't think they would word it that way it they didn't believe in their hearts that it was true.

Danji

BintyTwanger77 said:

Danji said:

I still listen to It Bites, (original line-up)...

Now that's seriously uncool! 

"Calling all the heroooeeees...." 

shooting up the town boys!!

Thanks for today's ear worm.  I know what I'll be listening to in the next 10 mins!

holnrew

I predominantly listen to hip hop which probably makes me uncool to most people here, but some of you like Joe Babymama so let's call it even

BintyTwanger77

holnrew said:

I predominantly listen to hip hop which probably makes me uncool to most people here, but some of you like Joe Babymama so let's call it even

Public Enemy, De La Soul, Beastie Boys, Kendrick Lamar, MC Solaar, Lupe Fiasco...love a bit of hip hop.

Moss

BintyTwanger77 said:

holnrew said:

I predominantly listen to hip hop which probably makes me uncool to most people here, but some of you like Joe Babymama so let's call it even

Public Enemy, De La Soul, Beastie Boys, Kendrick Lamar, MC Solaar, Lupe Fiasco...love a bit of hip hop.

Add Run The Jewels and Clipping to that, and I'm on board