Benson amps. Wow.

impmann

Lebarque said:

impmann said:

If you want a Fender sounding amp, don't you buy a Fender?
There's a lot of "Emperor's New Clothes" going on here.

No, they don't sound as good as the boutique offerings, even though some of them are just as expensive.

Define "good"?

Sorry but in my experience, the genuine sonic difference between some of these Boutique amps and the mass-produced ones is marginal at best, when listened in isolation.

Lebarque

impmann said:

Lebarque said:

impmann said:

If you want a Fender sounding amp, don't you buy a Fender?
There's a lot of "Emperor's New Clothes" going on here.

No, they don't sound as good as the boutique offerings, even though some of them are just as expensive.

Define "good"?

Sorry but in my experience, the genuine sonic difference between some of these Boutique amps and the mass-produced ones is marginal at best, when listened in isolation.

Similar to other mass-produced amps, most Fender amps are made to a price point. That means compromises on components, speakers and build quality. Boutique builders often chase perfection in these areas, leading to better quality and tone. As is the case in many other industries, it's marginal gains and a £2k amp doesn't sound twice as good as a £1k amp, but the difference is there for discerning ears. It's not just snobbery!

Lew

@impmann at the end of the day everything they do, they do it for you

Danny1969

It's a reckless amount of money to spend in my opinion

impmann

You haven't understood my point - in what way are they 'better' sounding?

If you want it to sound 'like a Fender' then a Fender will sound "the best". Anything else will be a copy thereof and can't actually be an improvement.

It could sound "different", but better is a subjective term that is only based on the individual's notion of what they are trying to achieve. 

My own own experience has been tainted recently by trying CS Strats through a Carr amp (can't remember the name) that was allegedly based on a Fender deLuxe. I hated it - and asked for the 'real thing' as it was like a cartoon exaggeration of the amp it was based on. When the 'real thing' - a much cheaper reissue - was deployed, the sound that I wanted was there.

So whilst the boutique market can bang on about "quality" improvements (some of which are truly marginal) and some internal components that are theoretically of higher quality, the real world answer is they offer a 'different' approach, that may suit you more or may not.

Each to their own but they aren't necessarily 'better' just offer a different option.

dindude

impmann said:

You haven't understood my point - in what way are they 'better' sounding?

If you want it to sound 'like a Fender' then a Fender will sound "the best". Anything else will be a copy thereof and can't actually be an improvement.

It could sound "different", but better is a subjective term that is only based on the individual's notion of what they are trying to achieve. 

My own own experience has been tainted recently by trying CS Strats through a Carr amp (can't remember the name) that was allegedly based on a Fender deLuxe. I hated it - and asked for the 'real thing' as it was like a cartoon exaggeration of the amp it was based on. When the 'real thing' - a much cheaper reissue - was deployed, the sound that I wanted was there.

So whilst the boutique market can bang on about "quality" improvements (some of which are truly marginal) and some internal components that are theoretically of higher quality, the real world answer is they offer a 'different' approach, that may suit you more or may not.

Each to their own but they aren't necessarily 'better' just offer a different option.

I can understand you preferring the sound of the deluxe but I'm pretty confident that the Carr will be a whole lot better built than the Fender, in fact having owned both Fenders and Carrs then I'm absolutely sure. That's were a lot of the money goes.

Then I think, tone wise, the "boutique" designs are usually somewhat refined versions of the classics. For example my Carr Sportsman probably isn't as characterful as a Princeton reissue if that's the exact sound you're after, but it doesn't have the flabby bass at high volumes, is much better behaved with pedals, is smoother in the transition to overdrive etc etc. So yes if you want all the character of the originals, faults and all, then there's little point in going boutique (I do hate that term but let's go with it for now), if you you want to iron out the creases, both tone wise and reliabiiity wise then that's where the more expensive option comes into play.

Lebarque

impmann said:

You haven't understood my point - in what way are they 'better' sounding?

If you want it to sound 'like a Fender' then a Fender will sound "the best". Anything else will be a copy thereof and can't actually be an improvement.

It could sound "different", but better is a subjective term that is only based on the individual's notion of what they are trying to achieve. 

My own own experience has been tainted recently by trying CS Strats through a Carr amp (can't remember the name) that was allegedly based on a Fender deLuxe. I hated it - and asked for the 'real thing' as it was like a cartoon exaggeration of the amp it was based on. When the 'real thing' - a much cheaper reissue - was deployed, the sound that I wanted was there.

So whilst the boutique market can bang on about "quality" improvements (some of which are truly marginal) and some internal components that are theoretically of higher quality, the real world answer is they offer a 'different' approach, that may suit you more or may not.

Each to their own but they aren't necessarily 'better' just offer a different option.

Although inspired by the Deluxe Reverb, the Carr Rambler is a different beast, not a clone. You didn't like it - fair enough.
  
"If you want it to sound 'like a Fender' then a Fender will sound 'the best'. Anything else will be a copy thereof and can't actually be an improvement."
Fender's PCB-based re-issues do not sound as good as vintage 50's and 60's Fenders. High quality, modern clones get closer (and sometimes better), hence why builders such as Rift, Victoria etc. have sustainable businesses.

"Each to their own but they aren't necessarily 'better' just offer a different option."
That's like saying a Ferrari is not a better car than a Dacia Sandero, it's just a different option. Hmmm.  

impmann

Lebarque said:

"Each to their own but they aren't necessarily 'better' just offer a different option."
That's like saying a Ferrari is not a better car than a Dacia Sandero, it's just a different option. Hmmm.  

Er no its not, thats a totally different analogy.

A better one one would be: Lotus Elan vs Mazda MX5 series1, wouldn't it? The MX5 was massively inspired by the Lotus (to the point that they analysed the exhaust note to try to get into a similar ballpark without the noise). Arguably the MX5 was easier to live with but the Lotus was arguably the more characterful.

But even that isn't quite right is it?

As I say, each to their own - if it what inspires *you* then its 'better'. If not...

Lew

@impmann I understood what you we're saying perfectly thanks!  But when comparing Carr amps I think if you look into your heart you will find there's nothing there to hide. 

ruoma

I've had absolutely zero issues with my boutique lazy j in over 3 years, whereas with my cheaper brunetti single man amp I had to get it serviced each year for 100£ so I think with a lot, but probably not all boutique builders, you do get better build quality. 

ThePrettyDamned

ruoma said:

I've had absolutely zero issues with my boutique lazy j in over 3 years, whereas with my cheaper brunetti single man amp I had to get it serviced each year for 100£ so I think with a lot, but probably not all boutique builders, you do get better build quality. 

Wow, really? What needed fixing on it? 

ruoma

ThePrettyDamned said:

ruoma said:

I've had absolutely zero issues with my boutique lazy j in over 3 years, whereas with my cheaper brunetti single man amp I had to get it serviced each year for 100£ so I think with a lot, but probably not all boutique builders, you do get better build quality. 

Wow, really? What needed fixing on it? 

Reverb was cutting out from the get-go, that problem persisted even after check up, couple times tube issses, some buzzing issues another time. I can't remember the specifics, and I guess I will most likely be in the minority cause otherwise it was a fun amp at a very reasonable price. In the end I got a bad taste from that amp and just let it go to prevent further cost. Mind you, nothing was ever wrong with the pcb if I recall correctly, but I'm no tech. Maybe I just had a bad repair guy who didn't fix everything at once the first time Having said that though, I haven't replaced my j20's tubes even once and it still sounds cracking.