Celebrity Death - does it matter?

richardhomer

fftc said:

richardhomer said:

I think it's understandable. The best music communicates on an emotional level - so even if you have no 'actual' relationship with them, the noise they make has made an emotional connection with you. 

Yes, it's understandable to be saddened. To feel genuine grief even, but is it normal to be 'devastated' and bang on about it all over the internet?
And I don't mean you personally as I have no idea if you have or not, but just the general trend.

I wasn't active on any forums when John Martyn died - but I would have posted about if if I had been - as it was a significant thing for me.

I think over-emoting on the internet is pretty common - particularly on things like Facebook, there seems to be a certain reaction required to some news. I'm an emotional mess - I cry very easily - so my judgement may be unreliable on this topic....

freakboy1610

richardhomer said:

I think it's understandable. The best music communicates on an emotional level - so even if you have no 'actual' relationship with them, the noise they make has made an emotional connection with you.

Very interesting thread and I totally agree with the above. It made me think about my own experiences and two came to mind;

I can still recall, as clear as day, thirteen year old me coming down the stairs one morning when my mum told me that John Lennon had been shot dead. I loved Lennon and the Beatles music and was really shocked and upset. I guess I had been fortunate enough not to experience bereavement of any sort at that stage in my life.

The other was when Joe Strummer died. I was driving home from work and turned on the radio half way through the news report. It was obvious that someone from the Clash had died but I didn't know who it was. I guessed that Topper and Simonon probably wouldn't make headline news and, to my shame, I remember hoping it was Mick Jones not Joe.I still think about Joe Strummer around Christmas time.

bingefeller

Dominic said:

I think,whether celebrity or the man in the shop down the road,it is the death of a contemporary or somebody of same age group that is disturbing because it re-affirms our own fragile mortality .

Best not to think about it. 

darthed1981

Music is a big part of people's lives, we develop genuine affection for the people who make it, and it makes us sad, briefly, when they pass away.

Sometimes, like Bowie and Cohen, they leave behind monumental last works that show what a loss that talent leaving the world is.

I can understand someone who grew up with Soundgarden's music as a friend and solace, which music often is, feeling grief at Cornell's death, I'd totally understand that.

It goes a bit too far on social media, but then EVERYTHING goes too far on social media.

Dave_Vader

I wrote this about the celebrity grief trend in social media a year or so ago.

http://davedoesntwriteanythingever.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/david-bowie-and-empathic-grief-wave.html

I think I might have changed my mind since though.

RocknRollDave

When you start using concepts like "normal" as a yardstick to hold up to  people's actions, you're on shaky ground.

Personally, if someone is a huge fan of an artist, I get why they would be upset over their death. I do get that some people make public displays that are disproportionate, and it seemed odd to find out last year that everybody in the whole of the social media world hugely LOVED Bowie AND Motorhead AND Prince AND Alan Rickman AND Victoria Wood. Bit of a grief bandwagon, for sure.
You also see companies and famous names posting messages of condolence, and whilst I am sure they are heartfelt, I also wonder how much they feel like they HAVE to make a statement.

guitarfishbay

If it is real to the person it is real to them.  I really don't do that much on social media so I've not noticed the same volume as maybe some people have.

Actually being honest the one that made me feel most mortal was Steve Jobs.  I thought to myself, man if this guy had all the money you'd ever need and still died relatively young, what chance do I have if my luck runs out.

Teetonetal

RocknRollDave said:

When you start using concepts like "normal" as a yardstick to hold up to  people's actions, you're on shaky ground.

Personally, if someone is a huge fan of an artist, I get why they would be upset over their death. I do get that some people make public displays that are disproportionate, and it seemed odd to find out last year that everybody in the whole of the social media world hugely LOVED Bowie AND Motorhead AND Prince AND Alan Rickman AND Victoria Wood. Bit of a grief bandwagon, for sure.
You also see companies and famous names posting messages of condolence, and whilst I am sure they are heartfelt, I also wonder how much they feel like they HAVE to make a statement.

I guess that is what I'm thinking about. There were some really over the top reactions last year in particular and I think grief bandwagon aptly describes some of last year... I'm not sure that I can quite equate the posts of "I'm in floods of tears" or "Saddest day of my life" etc to real feelings of grief.

Maybe I'm simply not as emotional as some, maybe I'm hardened, having seen a succession of family and friends die on a regular basis throughout my life - but for me there is a huge difference between genuine chasm inducing grief vs a little sadness and quiet reflection...  however, I think it's more that the concept of Fame makes me very uncomfortable and I kind of see this over the top grief as a step further into that Fame culture.

Bygone_Tones

Try and see the bigger picture. These artists or celebs, or princess diana etc, improved millions of peoples lives with their gift to the world, whatever it was. On an individual level that may affect you or it may not (if you knew them personally or not, or their music connected with you or not). The point is they affected millions of lives for the better, even if it was just for a fleeting moment whilst listening to a song, they made the world a better place. This is why they are missed when they die.

Teetonetal

Bygone_Tones said:

Try and see the bigger picture. These artists or celebs, or princess diana etc, improved millions of peoples lives with their gift to the world, whatever it was. On an individual level that may affect you or it may not (if you knew them personally or not, or their music connected with you or not). The point is they affected millions of lives for the better, even if it was just for a fleeting moment whilst listening to a song, they made the world a better place. This is why they are missed when they die.

But there lots of non famous people who affect billions of lives everyday (nurses, teachers) etc who no one gives a moments thought too. It's the fame that counts, not the validity of the person's work?

Teetonetal

guitarfishbay said:

Actually being honest the one that made me feel most mortal was Steve Jobs.  I thought to myself, man if this guy had all the money you'd ever need and still died relatively young, what chance do I have if my luck runs out.

None. death is coming for you, like it or not. It's a question of when, not if.
I've always wondered if life would be better or worse, if people thought about their own mortality more often. For me it's something I only really started to consider since having kids... I could not bear to die before they can make their own way in the world. It's about the only thing I'm genuinely scared of, but if it happens, there's nothing I can do. Realizing that really helped me to accept being a parent.

Bygone_Tones

People do give them plenty of thought. The difference is these are large groups of people that can't be singled out, not an individual. If all the nurses and doctors in the world suddenly all died at once then I'm pretty sure it would be in the news.

Reverend

The thing is, I'm a musician. Most of the people on my FB are musicians or active music fans so it would make sense that musicians would make an big impact. 

underdog

Also the death of someone you listened to in your formative years is often a reminder of time moving on for all of us, that life is moving on, ultimately to the end of it, no matter what.

For me it's the loss of the music, the live performances and also what would have come from the artist in the future. With Cornell and Stanley also it's the fact that vocally they were outstanding, I mean top of pile, and we've lost that forever.

antifash

I taught my students 'Hunger Strike' today.

Cheers.

EricTheWeary

fftc said:

It's a trend that has been developing for 20 years since Diana died. The public outpouring of grief. Some folk seem to like to try and outdo others with their display, and social media and the internet give an audience that wasn't there before.
I don't understand it either. I wonder if it's an opportunity to feel community spirit, bound in grief, as it is it maybe removes some of the barriers that we face in feeling community spirit in other areas of life? I don't know. I'm sure there will be sociologists who have examined the phenomenon.
It's normal to feel sad when someone dies, especially folk who you felt affection for due to their art. If you identified with what they were saying then it does build a 'relationship' of sorts, but it does seem to have developed quite a bit beyond what I would class as normal in the last few years.

I think there's something about the communal experience. When Bowie died, for example, it was in the media, social media and my 89 year old mother knew about it and knew who he was as did my teenage kids. I don't know that it involved public displays of grief for any of us but it's a big event. Like Brexit but with fond anecdotes. 
The number of celebs might be growing but the number with the status of a Bowie must be diminishing, maybe we will start running out of these shared grief events at some point.

I think there's also something about these being the deaths of people with a lot of media presence. To do an obit on Diana the press and TV had no problem finding photos and video clips to evidence whatever point they wanted  to make about her. Forward twenty years and that's not only still the same but everyone with an iPhone can post :we miss you' under every Chris Cornell clip on YouTube and demonstrate how deeply they feel this stuff let alone the need to fill rolling TV news. Celebs also have celeb mates so you get an excuse to get Elton John on a satellite link or whatever and add a bit of glamour to the news instead of more stuff about problems with the trains or whatever.

bodhi

If the person in question affected you in some profound way, for whatever reason, then yes - you do feel a sense of loss.  What Chris Cornell, for example, achieved musically is pretty profound in many people's minds, mine included.

So now he's gone, the world feels different and it is unsettling.

MagicPigDetective

I would normally be one of the grief police. But this one has hit me hard. If you've spent hundreds of hours listening to someone giving it their all, pouring their heart out, its gonna affect you when they're gone. The only other celebrity death that has affected me deeply was Kurt Cobain 

darthed1981

Teetonetal said:

guitarfishbay said:

Actually being honest the one that made me feel most mortal was Steve Jobs.  I thought to myself, man if this guy had all the money you'd ever need and still died relatively young, what chance do I have if my luck runs out.

None. death is coming for you, like it or not. It's a question of when, not if.
I've always wondered if life would be better or worse, if people thought about their own mortality more often. For me it's something I only really started to consider since having kids... I could not bear to die before they can make their own way in the world. It's about the only thing I'm genuinely scared of, but if it happens, there's nothing I can do. Realizing that really helped me to accept being a parent.

That's a really good point, the day I see my kids off to their new lives, be it their weddings or careers or whatever, the day I know (even if they don't) that they don't need Dad any more, any days after that are a bonus.

I really want to know my grandchildren though.   Its amazing how they change your priorities.  I used to want a Gibson LP Standard, its only recently ive realised the reason ive not bought one is I cant justify spending 2k on a guitar when I have a family (not on my income level, obviously all ye boomers with fat pensions fill your boots).

57Deluxe

Is all personal. If the celeb has been a part of your upbringing, or has struck a chord with you through their work then it feels like a corner stone to your 'world' has been removed. Something you relied on to revisit for familiarity and confirmation of feeling.

I still find it hard to think that Bowie is not just dead but that there is no go-to place of where his actual physicality with the world remains. As if he was just a 'story once told'.