Celebrity Death - does it matter?

Teetonetal

I started this thread, really so as not to take the Cornell Rip thread into a stupid place.
But @Antifish raised a question that has always puzzled me as I see over the top outpourings of grief over celeb death from time to time and I don't understand it.

antifash said:

Teetonetal said:

antifash said:

Teetonetal said:

Sad news.

Cobain, Staley, Weiland and now Cornell 

What does it mean when your idols kill themselves?

Nothing.  Except perhaps that being a massively successful musician doesn't mean you are mentally able to deal with or make you immune from being human.

You don't think being attracted to music written by them means anything?

@antifish well, yes. but beyond a sadness of life passing, but the personal attachment is one way, and it's based upon an image a person portrays. I love music. But my emotional attachment is to the record, not to the artist. As much as I loved Soundgarden and they formed a big part of my teens along with Nirvana and AIC, the actual deaths mean little to me. Same as Bowie, Prince, et all.

I don't know, I just don't have the ability to make an emotional connection to a person that I have no two way interaction with. 

Sure it's sad. Sure they can have a meaningful impact on your life through their work, but the relationship is not a real one as the relationship is actually to the music and not the person. I've never understand out pourings of grief beyond basic compassion and sadness over celebrity deaths. If you've properly met them, or worked with them, then I totally get it, but otherwise what you are "grieving" is an image of what you think that person personifies. 

The deaths of these 4 have been human tragedies, suicide and substance abuse, hand in hand. I wonder if they ever had any support  from the industry. I think with these grunge guys, they were not in anyway equipped to deal with the success that movement had. I have no idea why, but the personalities it carried seem to have been frail.

Many people aspire to be famous, or to be a successful musician, but I reckon it can be a pretty lonely and tough existence if you are not careful. 

Anyways, Cornell's death is sad news and as always, the ones I feel really sorry for are his kids.

Strangefan

I think it's horses for courses bud, if you feel sad about it... You feel sad about it, if you don't then..... You don't,  theres nothing wrong with an out pouring of emotion, as the death of another will be interpreted differently by different people.

I personally don't get affected by celebrities death, but I can see how others do. 

professorben

I shed a tear last night listening to CC's music. 

Mostly I think for the connection I had with his music, Soundgarden got me through some pretty tough times as a teenager and AudioSlave first hit when I was travelling around Australia. 

All things that evoke strong personal memories for me, which is the emotional connection, if not with the man himself, but with the parts of my past that he soundtracked. 

His passing now is also linked to those times. 

Also Its sad when someone takes their own life, when your demons take control in anyway, its a reminder of how finely balanced life can sometimes be.

I personally have suffered with depression and have self harmed and considered 'ending it' I'm out the other side and thankfully free of those thoughts now, but it's like a shadow that is just out of my line of sight, I know it's there but it can't catch me now. 

So in answer to your point, I suppose I'm not grieving for him, nor the image he portrayed, I'm grieving for what he meant to me, and the parts of my life that he affected.   

Teetonetal

Strangefan said:

I think it's horses for courses bud, if you feel sad about it... You feel sad about it, if you don't then..... You don't,  theres nothing wrong with an out pouring of emotion, as the death of another will be interpreted differently by different people.

I personally don't get affected by celebrities death, but I can see how others do. 

Totally, 

An please don't get me wrong on this, I don't believe that there is right or wrong. Just it's something I don't understand. I don't know, maybe it's just another social media skew. But I saw some really emotional status updates about a few of the deaths last year and I just don't understand it.

eSully

Does it matter. Depends on the celebrity and whether they've done something that has had an effect on your life. I'd contend yes it does if it's one of you're favorite musicians, you won't get the Euphoria of watching them live again, listening to new music from them again. Also, I think for some it can make you feel sad due to the passing of time. Some musicians/music can be very important to you as it takes you back to a time or place that you're fond of and like to remember, in a weird way the loss of the artist can feel like a bit of a severing of that connection. I do get your point but expressions of grief are a personal thing and some will be more invested in a celebrities life and output than others, I have in the past been very moved by the deaths of people I didn't actually know!

mikeyrob73

Never before have I really felt affected by a celebrity death in the way Cornells has. Like Ben I have also suffered at the hands of the black dog, and like @professorben I am thankfully out the other side now. And I guess it's not mourning someone you have never met, it's mourning the music and what it meant to you, the times and places you listened to it etc

fftc

It's a trend that has been developing for 20 years since Diana died. The public outpouring of grief. Some folk seem to like to try and outdo others with their display, and social media and the internet give an audience that wasn't there before.
I don't understand it either. I wonder if it's an opportunity to feel community spirit, bound in grief, as it is it maybe removes some of the barriers that we face in feeling community spirit in other areas of life? I don't know. I'm sure there will be sociologists who have examined the phenomenon.
It's normal to feel sad when someone dies, especially folk who you felt affection for due to their art. If you identified with what they were saying then it does build a 'relationship' of sorts, but it does seem to have developed quite a bit beyond what I would class as normal in the last few years.

Reverend

I'm not a fan of Soundgarden or CC so it didn't affect me the way that Dio did but I totally understand why people are upset as music has a major emotional impact of many of us. 

Ravenous

fftc said:

Some folk seem to like to try and outdo others with their display, and social media and the internet give an audience that wasn't there before.

We'll possibly get flamed for this, but I sort of agree with you.

I find myself preoccupied with death since my own Dad died (years ago, so I'm not pining for sympathy); it changes your outlook, and a few of the celebrity deaths of recent years have hit me fairly hard.

But... I feel some people compete as if to say they love the dead celebrity more than anyone else there. (I'm NOT talking about The Fretboard by the way.)  Death is a personal matter to the family, and fans & fellow professionals adding warm comments is probably fine; but hangers-on trying to get in on the action is a bit unseemly...

Jalapeno

Given the focus on de-stigmatising mental-health issues, and what's looking like a suicide (male suicide reaching fast becoming largest cause of death for middle-aged men) I think it's important that these matters reach the widest audience. So yes it does matter (in addition to personal reactions, whether by proxy or directly)

joeyowen

I was devastated when the Rev died from Avenged.  He was the sole reason I got into drumming.  The last conversation I had with a friend before he killed himself was us talking about learning beast and the harlot together.

So was it the death, maybe not so much.  But he was still someone who was a big influence on me, and it was a shame to lose it.

People grieve in so many different ways.  It's ok to not be ok, and it's ok to be ok.  No point in judging other people's feelings on it mind

scrumhalf

It's one thing to be affected by the death of someone you know.

It's another thing to be affected by the death of someone you don't know, but part of whose life you are familiar with without them knowing you.

I often think that this is symptomatic of living your life through others. Maybe it's just a reminder of our own mortality.

Teetonetal

Jalapeno said:

Given the focus on de-stigmatising mental-health issues, and what's looking like a suicide (male suicide reaching fast becoming largest cause of death for middle-aged men) I think it's important that these matters reach the widest audience. So yes it does matter (in addition to personal reactions, whether by proxy or directly)

Certainly agree - in that respect these stories can at least be positive if it makes people take the issue more seriously, but is there not a flip side that says to people, look, here is the way out? Fine lines I guess, and I'm not sure that media / social media always approaches these stories in a positive and helpful way.

joneve

I think it sometimes depends on the circumstances....For instance, if I woke up tomorrow and found out David Attenborough had passed, I'd be gutted, because he's a national treasure and his narration on nature docs will never ever be matched, but it wouldn't be a huge shock, because he's 91 years old. 

Another example - when Layne Staley died, I was understandably gutted (Alice in Chains are in my top 3 favourite bands of all time), but also was not shocked because he was a junkie and couldn't shake those demons, so it was, unfortunately, only a matter of time. 

But Cornell seemed to have made it out the other side, had a (seemingly) stable, happy life with a wife and two kids. Sound garden were making new music and have been actively touring, and he's seemed happy in his sober self in recent years...so waking up to the news yesterday was a massive shock and hit me like a ton of bricks. I'm "over it" now, in that I didn't know him, and am managing to go about my daily life, but I'm sat here listening to Badmotorfinger and it is sad. Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice In Chains, Temple of the Dog, Mad Season and Mother Love Bone were my life from about aged 15 to 21-22 (my english A-Level piece was an article I wrote about the "Seattle Connection" and how incestious the whole scene is/was), I've lived in Seattle and these bands have a massive connection with me. I consider that place my second home and I love the music that comes from there. I think that's why I was a bit devastated yesterday, because of the initial shock. 

Just my two penneth. 

mudslide73

For me it's an attachment to someone's work and them passing means there will be no more of it. The idea of there being no more Soundgarden/Audioslave/Whatever music is my connection to it, really. 

Teyeplayer

professorben said:

So in answer to your point, I suppose I'm not grieving for him, nor the image he portrayed, I'm grieving for what he meant to me, and the parts of my life that he affected.   

Very wise words from @professorben.
However, I do feel there is something more. As musicians we know that when we create something we give something of ourselves away (how often do we think of that song, album or band as our child) and it is an awareness of that personal involvement in the creative process that I think allows for a unique bond between the listener and the creator of the art. As such those memories and associations become more personal, almost shared -even if such a thing is scientifically impossible. From conversation with members of the audience after shows they too often make these connections.

I think that that sense of connection is different to just being a fan or idolising someone, because great art demands such a personal response, such a connection.

As a result the response Chris Cornell's death has created in me is vastly different to the response I'd give to the death of a film star or member of the royal family for example, who I might think 'oh that's sad for their family' but then have moved on almost immediately.

I also share the view as also expressed here that loss often reminds us of other losses we have experienced. When that is suicide I too find that all the more painful (even worse when the methodology is shared), it becomes a reminder of the pain felt before. Combined these aspects have meant that for me at least (as it seems to have been for a lot of us here) yesterday was one hell of a blow.

Funkfingers

Ravenous said:

fftc said:

display.

some people compete

Today, the culture appears to be, "I, too, am a victim."

The death of a relative, close friend or work colleague has an immediate and irreversible impact on one's daily life. The more sudden or extreme their demise, the more difficult it can be to accept.

Those we call celebrities tend to be people we admire but are unlikely to ever meet. Whilst their deaths mean no more of their optional entertainment products, there is no tangible bearing on daily life for anyone outside the deceased's social circle. 

Think it through for a mo'. "Oh, shucks. My favourite entertainer just died. How will I fulfil my desire for more of his/her output?" The concern expressed is more for oneself as a consumer than for those close to the recently deceased.

richardhomer

I think it's understandable. The best music communicates on an emotional level - so even if you have no 'actual' relationship with them, the noise they make has made an emotional connection with you. 

If you take my John Martyn obsession - I've loved his music since 17 - I own everything he's ever released, I saw him play over 30 times and met him on a few occasions. Even though I didn't 'know' him - he had a profound effect on my life. Inevitably when he died, I felt a very genuine sense of loss (I know what real ones feel like, having lost both parents, a sister and various other family members).

I think anyone who has brought some joy - or has some other significance, in your life - should be mourned in some way, regardless of whether you were on each other's Christmas card list....

fftc

richardhomer said:

I think it's understandable. The best music communicates on an emotional level - so even if you have no 'actual' relationship with them, the noise they make has made an emotional connection with you. 

Yes, it's understandable to be saddened. To feel genuine grief even, but is it normal to be 'devastated' and bang on about it all over the internet?
And I don't mean you personally as I have no idea if you have or not, but just the general trend.

bingefeller

For me it's more surprise when a celebrity dies out of the blue. I don't attach enough significance to celebrities to feel upset when they die. 

Dominic

I think,whether celebrity or the man in the shop down the road,it is the death of a contemporary or somebody of same age group that is disturbing because it re-affirms our own fragile mortality .