Biggest factor in guitar quality when working on a budget?

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Hi all, new member here. Been looking into buying a new guitar, preferably something Stratocaster flavoured. 

USA Fenders are definitely out of budget for the time being, unless something fairly well used. I'm gonna be looking at potentially any of the bazillions of options for MIM strats, Squiers, and any other strat-a-like guitars out there (Vintage, Fret King etc). 

My question is, does the quality of the pickups and hardware have the biggest impact on overall tone and quality, or is it the quality of the construction and the wood etc? In terms of what I can realistically afford, I'm thinking either looking to go for something like a stock MIM fender OR something from the far east like a Squier or Vintage Strat, with some decent upgrades to the pickups and possibly hardware. 

In your esteemed collective opinions, could a far east Strat copy actually be easily converted into as good a guitar (if not better) than a genuine Fender? Obviously I know these things are all subjective and I'm best off trying a load of guitars myself, but what experience do any of you lot have with playing/owning these various different guitars? 

Thanks in advance! 

fretmeister

The Squier CV models are excellent value and play very well.

MIM Fenders are a step up and will take upgrades well.

If you are not fussy about it being an exact Fender clone, then you cannot go wrong with a Yamaha Pacifica.

I picked up an early one (The Pacifica 112 - natural) for a whopping £90.
Pickups were uninspiring, but that's an easy fix.

mikeyrob73

+1 for the Squier Classic Vibe, i have the Strat and the Tele and they both outstanding guitars 

dindude

It's a great question.

I think Fender are pretty skilled these days in keeping everything in line as you move up the product ladder, meaning woods, finishing, hardware, pickups all follow an upward curve.

Having said that, I think the gap from upper end Squire to Mex is pretty small these days, both in quality and price!

Brands such as Ibanez and Yamaha seem to do it the old fashioned (certainly 80's) way. You have a base guitar then you pay for better hardware, pickups, maybe finshing, gold hardware etc, but the base guitar for that tricked out £800 guitar is pretty much the same as that one for £300 with lesser "bits" on it.

Personally I would want to upgrade the pickups at least so my choice would be between Squire and Mex and I would chose purely on things like neck shape, fretboard radius, fret wire size, colours available - as these things are hard to change.

HAL9000

MiM Strats are great guitars and are perfectly gigable. I've upgraded mine with better pickups (Oil City StoneTones) but there really isn't a lot wrong with the stock items. IMHO the MiM is a step up from the Squier CV, but I know there are people here who prefer the Squier. Really you need to get out there and try a few.

fretmeister said:

The Squier CV models are excellent value and play very well.

MIM Fenders are a step up and will take upgrades well.

If you are not fussy about it being an exact Fender clone, then you cannot go wrong with a Yamaha Pacifica.

I picked up an early one (The Pacifica 112 - natural) for a whopping £90.
Pickups were uninspiring, but that's an easy fix.

I have owned a Pacifica but, like some others here, never really got on with the skinny neck. I'd also agree about the stock pickups not being that great. If you do buy one just make sure that you feel you can deal with the neck long term. Pickups are easy to change; the neck isn't.

guitars4you

The big plus of any 'budget' guitar is that they have never been so good - Almost regardless of make, model, factory or country of origin - Granted you can drop of the radar on a few models below £150/100 - But your are spoilt now compared with 20-60 years ago - Most major brand names will ensure you get a decent guitar for your cash

I dare say the more of a guitar snob you are, the more you can find wrong with a budget guitar regarding p/ups and hardware, yet if you like to utilise certain tools in your toolbox then you can upgrade at a later date if required

A guitar is only as good as the sum of the parts, so wood, workmanship, hardware pick-ups etc  all have an impact on the tone and to a degree, all components support each other - Furthermore most guitars and appropriate ingredients are of a similar quality for that price of guitar (hope that makes sense) - Spend more and all ingredients should move up a notch

My best advise is based around the following

Buy used and you'll get more for your money - might even find something with upgrades on it

Playability to me is paramount - you can 'knock' the quality of hardware and pick-ups if you want to, but if it doesn't play well then it has no purpose whatsoever - regardless of how good a player you are or you aren't - Regardless of how much you know about guitars, or you don't - Your hands and ears are the best tools to evaluate a guitar so back the judgement as they won't let you down - Ensure the guitar is set-up to maximise its potential - If buying from a dealer then a new or used guitar should have this built into the price, especially when purchasing from you visiting the store - mail order can be hit n miss on the set-up with major box shifters - Not sure what your ability is to do your own set up

grungebob

If it where me, based soley on my own experience then id look to buy a used MIM then upgrade the parts as I could afford to at a later date if I still thought it needed it.

In my experience there's not much to hate on a MIM strat.

Plectrum

My main gigging guitar ATM is a little Harley Benton which cost me the princely £55. I put some Entwhistle pickups in it (another £40) and did work on the frets (a bit of leveling and smoothing of fret ends), gave it a good set-up and it's a decent little player now. Put some Oil City's or Mojo's in it and I'm sure it would sound even better.

Bridgehouse

grungebob said:

If it where me, based soley on my own experience then id look to buy a used MIM then upgrade the parts as I could afford to at a later date if I still thought it needed it.

In my experience there's not much to hate on a MIM strat.

I bought a MIM precision expecting to do quite a few upgrades. 

It's a gigging tool so gets played a lot. Upgrades so far? None.

Chalky

The Vintage brand Strats are ok, and I've picked up a few for 100 or less. Harley Bentons are generally great for the money but a few get through that should never have left the factory so be careful buying secondhand ones off eBay.  ESP LTD 213 has a nice chunky neck confusingly called a thin-U and if you like Stratty in-between tones in positions 2&4 then you'll love the pickups. But a used USA Strat for 500 or so will sound just that much richer, especially if you are a home player listening closely to how it sounds.

Funkfingers

Guitars are built using wood. Wood is variable. Hence, it is possible to stumble upon a budget corker or an expensive dawg. 

In my opinion, the single biggest variable is the person who will be playing the guitar in question. A guitar that suits me might not suit you. A set-up the suits one playing style may prove unworkable for some others. 

If you were talking bass guitars, I would have no hesitation in suggesting the Squier Vintage Modified Jazz Bass. Preferably, an older one with the Duncan Designed pickups. Almost always giggable straight out of the box. The pots and jack are weak spots. A chunkier bridge helps for some music genres and not for others.

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

Wow, some great responses so far, wasn't expecting so much so soon! 

I'm wanting something properly 'Strat Shaped', so I think the Yamaha Pacifica is a no go. 

A couple of people have mentioned that they thing the MIM Strat is a 'step up' from the CV Squier - is that step up is in terms of the build quality and woods used, or is it more down to the quality of the pickups and other hardware? 

I have less than zero technical ability and knowhow, so would look to buy something 2nd hand with the pickups already upgraded if that was the route I chose! With that in mind, I was potentially considering putting in an offer for something like this...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263098924407

Highest spec Vintage Strat, with Seymour Duncan and a brass nut. 

Other options 2nd hand might be something like this (depending where the bidding went up to of course)... 

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222591282368

Sadly there are no regular guitar stores in the town I live - going to try a few out for direct comparison requires a bit of trek up to Newcastle, and I don't have a lot of free time at the minute!

exocet

I tried the Telecaster Classic Vibe earlier this year. It was a fantastic guitar, in terms of playability and tone, it was right up there with the American Professional that I ended up buying. The only reason why I didn't buy it was the neck profile but that's a very personal thing rather than being a manufacturing / quality issue.

guitars4you

Of the 2 you listed below I'd edge my bets towards the Fender - nothing against the Vintage but my gut feeling is to much at £400 - but not a bad instrument especially with the relevant upgrades - Some don't like Texas Special p/ups on the Fender, but nevertheless an upgrade on stock Mex pick-ups - not a bad around the 300 mark - if it needs a tweak on the set-up then I'm sure a local dealer/tech can help you

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263098924407

Highest spec Vintage Strat, with Seymour Duncan and a brass nut. 

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222591282368

Is it not worth a trip to Newcastle to Windows or GuitarGuitar ?

zenzeypher

Squire CV range is fantastic to the point they now make Chinese Fenders due to the popularity of this line.

I wouldn't say the MIM is a step up, more a step to the side. The CV range are fantastic, brilliant guitars in fact and can rival many a guitar. I struggled to find any difference between that and my MIJ Tele at the time... even to my custom MJT body.

MIM usually have multi slab bodies with a veneer. My CVC was a 2-piece body. I stripped and painted it black... then 4 years later they release a black double bound body.

MIM however have also come quite a way in the past few years.

Just play em' - that's the only way you're going to find out.

crunchman

guitars4you said:

Of the 2 you listed below I'd edge my bets towards the Fender - nothing against the Vintage but my gut feeling is to much at £400 - but not a bad instrument especially with the relevant upgrades - Some don't like Texas Special p/ups on the Fender, but nevertheless an upgrade on stock Mex pick-ups - not a bad around the 300 mark - if it needs a tweak on the set-up then I'm sure a local dealer/tech can help you

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263098924407

Highest spec Vintage Strat, with Seymour Duncan and a brass nut. 

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222591282368

Is it not worth a trip to Newcastle to Windows or GuitarGuitar ?

Speak for yourself.  I'd prefer the stock Mexican pickups.

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

guitars4you said:

Of the 2 you listed below I'd edge my bets towards the Fender - nothing against the Vintage but my gut feeling is to much at £400 - but not a bad instrument especially with the relevant upgrades - Some don't like Texas Special p/ups on the Fender, but nevertheless an upgrade on stock Mex pick-ups - not a bad around the 300 mark - if it needs a tweak on the set-up then I'm sure a local dealer/tech can help you

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263098924407

Highest spec Vintage Strat, with Seymour Duncan and a brass nut. 

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222591282368

Is it not worth a trip to Newcastle to Windows or GuitarGuitar ?

I'm sure it probably would be worth the journey up to the Toon, it's just finding the time... 

I wasn't gonna pay £400 for the Vintage, was thinking of offering the guy more like £350 and see what he says. I'd probably snap the Fender up at £300 but that is an auction, so I'm guessing it'll end up going for a good £150-£200 more than that by the time the auction ends, which would be seriously stretching the budget! 

Out of interest, what's not so good about the Texas Specials? 

crunchman

Texas Specials are have more winds to get higher output.  The problem is that it tends to make them mid-heavy and less dynamic.

I remember trying a Mark Knopfler signature Strat with Texas Specials in a shop (about the most expensive guitar made in the US factory at the time) alongside a Mexican Classic.  The Mexican one sounded much better.

Some of that may have been down to the wood rather than the pickups:

Funkfingers said:

Guitars are built using wood. Wood is variable. Hence, it is possible to stumble upon a budget corker or an expensive dawg. 

Based on my other experience of Texas Specials I'm certain that they were a major factor though.

guitars4you

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Texas Special p/ups are like having a similar discussion about Marmite - they aren't crap but they are a matter of taste - On that e-bay example you listed at £300 I don't see the p/ups as a negative - If you don't like them then you can exchange as required at a later date and probably get £80-100 for a used set of C/Shop pick-ups from someone

Modellista

I wasn't gonna pay £400 for the Vintage, was thinking of offering the guy more like £350 and see what he says. 

It's a Buy It Now, you can't do that.

Buy this.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/guitar-instrument/fender-stratocaster-guitar-blue/1257053127

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

modellista said:

I wasn't gonna pay £400 for the Vintage, was thinking of offering the guy more like £350 and see what he says. 

It's a Buy It Now, you can't do that.

Buy this.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/guitar-instrument/fender-stratocaster-guitar-blue/1257053127

Bugger, it was initially listed at Buy Now or Best Offer! Bloke must have changed his mind. Probably after receiving cheeky offers from cheapskates like me!  

Daft as I know it sounds, I just can't get away with Humbuckers on a Strat, purely for the aesthetics. Just looks 'wrong' somehow!