What to do?

Hootsmon

My niece has a 7 year old girl who has some behavioural problems...."oh, she has OCD" says her mum, but I think it goes way deeper than that. I think she ticks every single box for Asperger's, every single box, and the list is long

As an extended family we are all very close I guess, but I can't walk up to my niece and say..."I think your daughter has Asperger's..." on the other hand ,and from what I have since read , early diagnosis  is crucial

She is a high functioning wee girl and everyone is walking on eggshells around her

I don't know what to do for the best....bring the subject up, and if a DX is made she could get the proper care and guidance, or keep my none of my business nosy parker face out of things....I don't have a family myself but I try to put myself in my nieces shoes and imagine how I would feel if a relative came to me and said, I think your daughter has Asperger's...

Thing is, there is a younger 2 year old girl in the family and I can clearly see the effect her older sister's behaviour is having on her

underdog

I'd mention it to be honest with you. Maybe starting a general conversation about child behaviour and when she starts mentioning how she behaves you could bring it up, or start talking about an (imaginary) friend who's kid has been diagnosed and list off the tell tale signs you know your great niece has 

beed84

Labels do no good IMHO. Although there might be noticeable behavioural differences between those with Asperger's and other kids, I think it's more worthwhile to treat the former just like the latter as opposed to having them diagnosed with a term that could have serious detriment, e.g. stigma, and being prescribed various medication. The DSM manual has caused problems rather than resolve them if you ask me.

Hootsmon

^ but if we knew she was on the spectrum we could make allowances and moderate OUR behaviour towards her

Funkfingers

If you mention your opinion, some people could take offence.

If you don't mention the possibility now, eventually, somebody will be asking why you didn't mention it when you first suspected.

No win.

Hootsmon

Doggy, that sounds pretty good....but her parents are two very bright individuals and if they are not already alarmed by all the signs I am not sure dropping subtle hints will help....

WezV

If the mother says "she has OCD" it's safe to assume she will discuss that behaviour with the school at some point.  

No need for you to do anything, just act like you would normally.  The child needs to learn how people normally respond to their behaviour. 

I have worked closely with dozens of Aspergers and ASD students in secondary schools.  I wouldn't say any of them "ticked all the boxes".  

Hootsmon

WezV said:

If the mother says "she has OCD" it's safe to assume she will discuss that behaviour with the school at some point.  

No need for you to do anything, just act like you would normally.  The child needs to learn how people normally respond to their behaviour. 

I have worked closely with dozens of Aspergers and ASD students in secondary schools.  I wouldn't say any of them "ticked all the boxes".  

my "ticked all the boxes" is just my indelicate way of saying she appears to show signs of all the signs and symptoms required in a DX of Aspergers

WezV

hootsmon said:

WezV said:

If the mother says "she has OCD" it's safe to assume she will discuss that behaviour with the school at some point.  

No need for you to do anything, just act like you would normally.  The child needs to learn how people normally respond to their behaviour. 

I have worked closely with dozens of Aspergers and ASD students in secondary schools.  I wouldn't say any of them "ticked all the boxes".  

my "ticked all the boxes" is just my indelicate way of saying she appears to show signs of all the signs and symptoms required in a DX of Aspergers

I get that.  So do many people.  Fairly sure 50% of this forum would meet them word for word too.   I reckon I would end up with a diagnosis if I went through school again.


at most, next time the mother mentions the behaviour, ask "what do the school say?".


i say this as a parent who thinks their daughter shows some symptoms.  But my expertise in the subject is with teenagers so I won't try and diagnose my 5 year old.  (Or myself)

beed84

hootsmon said:

^ but if we knew she was on the spectrum we could make allowances and moderate OUR behaviour towards her

True, but then she'd just end up being a child trying to fit in with the 'normal people'. And lets face it, it's hard enough as it is. I'm with @WezV. Just be how you are with her and she'll thank you in the long run, especially if her parents do take some form of action and she does get diagnosed with Asperger's.

Hootsmon

thanks guys 

Grunfeld

hootsmon said:

...some behavioural problems...."oh, she has OCD" says her mum... I think she... [has] Asperger's,

You've got your opening right there with "she has OCD." 
I know the case of a young woman, 22, who was misdiagnosed with an eating disorder for several years before correctly identifying OCD behaviour as the driver for the problem -- OCD which, incidentally, started at the age of seven. 
Talking about the OCD-like behaviour enables you to have that conversation with your niece, "OCD or Asperger's?..."
Or something like, "Your girl reminds me of a drummer I worked with who had Asperger's.  Do they check for that at school?"
It's an indirect way, if you wanted one, of asking if the girl's teachers have ever wondered anything. 
You might be the third person to wonder to your niece about it and she might have put the other two out of her mind.
You're not being nosey; you're being concerned.
I saw someone with a funny looking lump on their eye.  "What's that?"  "Nothing."  "Get it checked out."  "Really?"  "Yes."
They cut it out the same week.   

Hootsmon

Today I tried to show her how to mix two colours on her paint board to make a new colour but she was having none of it.....she displays a real fear of anything new to her....God knows how her teachers cope....

Emp_Fab

Fuck causing offence...  tell them what you think.  If it means the penny drops and she gets more appropriate help earlier on, who knows what pain you might be saving her - and them.

underdog

beed84 said:

Labels do no good IMHO. Although there might be noticeable behavioural differences between those with Asperger's and other kids, I think it's more worthwhile to treat the former just like the latter as opposed to having them diagnosed with a term that could have serious detriment, e.g. stigma, and being prescribed various medication. The DSM manual has caused problems rather than resolve them if you ask me.

Disagree massively. If someone is "labeled" then it generally means in life, and particularly in education, they can receive whatever help they need to do their best.

A child on the autistic spectrum could be way above average in the intelligence stakes but suffer educationally due to lack of planning, social skills, fear of asking questions etc etc

With the right understanding from their school it could make a world of difference and go on to positively influence their adult lives also. Part of being in school is how to learn interact with you peers, something most kids on the spectrum need at least a little help with.

beed84

underdog said:

beed84 said:

Labels do no good IMHO. Although there might be noticeable behavioural differences between those with Asperger's and other kids, I think it's more worthwhile to treat the former just like the latter as opposed to having them diagnosed with a term that could have serious detriment, e.g. stigma, and being prescribed various medication. The DSM manual has caused problems rather than resolve them if you ask me.

Disagree massively. If someone is "labeled" then it generally means in life, and particularly in education, they can receive whatever help they need to do their best.

A child on the autistic spectrum could be way above average in the intelligence stakes but suffer educationally due to lack of planning, social skills, fear of asking questions etc etc

With the right understanding from their school it could make a world of difference and go on to positively influence their adult lives also. Part of being in school is how to learn interact with you peers, something most kids on the spectrum need at least a little help with.

Oh I agree; however, it doesn't mean to say they have to be branded with x,y or z syndrome. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I find it sad that society now seems to think that a child who acts 'differently', i.e. on the spectrum, needs a syndrome first to be then understood. No, they just need to be understood and treated like a human being because that's what they are. It might require more work but I think with that and human touch, then they'd have a better outcome in life instead of being sold a syndrome by parents and doctors who diagnose them. As for the spectrum, if you look hard enough, then I'm on it, you're on it, hell we're all on it what with the vast array of idiosyncrasies the human race possesses. 

Call me a cynic, but my sister was diagnosed with Asperger's. Personally I think it was the worst thing for her.

uncledick

A lot hinges on the expertise and experience at her school.  Why not ask her how she's getting on?  If she says it's fine and that she enjoys going, chances are they've already got a handle on it - regardless of Mum's opinion.  In your own words, the parents are 'two very bright individuals' and that often makes for some pretty intense offspring.

capo4th

They maybe already aware and are dealing with it as a family but don't want it to be common knowledge. I agree that people need to know so that they can help and behave / interact appropriately. 

Teyeplayer

I have friends who are in exactly this scenario with one of their sons, they have openly admitted they don't want to push for a diagnosis until it is absolutely necessary. Currently their son is in primary school and happy. Long term though he will require the support a diagnosis will ensure, they though are not comfortable with that (yet). Your family may be in the same boat?

In response to a comment above about the risk of the label and being given certain drugs. As a society we are far less prone to stigmatising individuals than we have been in the past, in fact a diagnosis can lead to a far better range of support being opened up, including training the child to cope with certain situations that they find difficult -which becomes essential once the child becomes a hormonal teenager.

LuttiS

My Nephew is a "high functioning" autistic 6yr old.. and his behaviour is having an effect on his little brother. 

It was actually the school who picked it up, as when he was younger he had a few mannerisms, but none that you would notice as different from any other over excited kid.

Now he's a bit older, you can clearly see the autistic mannerisms. 

Since proper diagnosis, he has received lots of help from the school (he has his own "office" in a corner of the classroom for when it gets to overwhelming he can just go and have his own space there) as well as other help.

If it is uncomfortable for you, go down to "what does school say" route, and then bring in symptoms to the conversation or something.. can't really help with the how, but the support she will get will significantly help her in the short and long run.

57Deluxe

years ago you could go for a long drive in the car and dump them somewhere... not so easy with CCTV and iphones and Facebook... and the price of petrol...