If Hendrix had played a Telecaster

DulcetJones

I recall a time when tele's dominated the country music world and many people I knew in those days that were into rock shunned tele's for that reason alone.  This was Canada in the 70's, and was a real "thing".

Three-ColourSunburst

Talking of Mojo, given that a Les Paul shaped piece of wood is held to have a certain amount of Mojo, one made in the US even more, and one with a Gibson logo on head stock yet more, especially if it is a 'vintage reissue',  imagine how much Mojo a guitar actually owned or played by a famous player would have. This sort of thing has even become the subject of academic research.

We examine how musicians use contagious and imitative magic to imbue replica guitars with power. Iconically and indexically signified magical thinking causes their replicas to radiate aura and thus transforms them into fetishes.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227630822_Making_Magic_Fetishes_in_Contemporary_Consumption

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19401159.2016.1252973?scroll=top&needAccess=true&;

boogieman

Isn't there a quote from Hendrix along the lines of "there's only two tones you can get out of a Telecaster. Bad and really bad." 

scrumhalf

professorben said:

Plus Telecasters smell faintly of wee. 

Is that a matter of too much or too little?

Neil

Three-ColourSunburst said:

I think the central point here is that, rationally, guitarists shouldn't care less about what they play, above and beyond having the sort of pickups, wiring and hardware that is most compatible with the sound they wish to create. Given that one's sound is determined by ones own skill; then the amp / pedals used; then the pickups feeding into that amp and the associated electronics; then to a more minor degree the picks used and the strings and other hardware fitted to the guitar, all else is pretty much an irrelevance, other than in relation to the 'image' one is trying to present.

Just look at some of the videos Darrell Braun has done - a LP versus a Tele Deluxe, 335 versus a LP, an Ibanez RG versus a Strat and so on - the differences in sound are tiny, and certainly much smaller than differences generated by the amp one uses, picking technique and so on, especially once an amp is being over driven.  Another good one is the video where Henning Pauly (eytschpi42) puts a Harley Benton up against a PRS and gets exactly the same tone. Here's another.



Beyond this, the cult of the '59 Les Paul, or the Clapton's black Strat and so on very much look like examples of the continued modern day belief in magic ( or 'mojo' as musiciams prefer to call it ). This is exactly the same belief in magic that manufacturers exploit when talk about 'tone woods', or the tonal benefits of using horse glue and old fashioned car paint whilst adding another 5 grand to the price! It is also the same sort of belief in mojo that affects many other domains as well, including the classical music world, where it has been shown that despite their reputation, even experts and top-line players cant tell the sound of a Strad' from that of a modern instrument!

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/05/million-dollar-strads-fall-modern-violins-blind-sound-check

If you want to be rational, sure.

However anything to do with art/music is never rational, it is all about emotion and to me how a guitar looks is the vital component.

They have to be the right guitars and they have to be the right colour. I wouldn't be happy otherwise.

Why put up with something you don't like the look of or hate the colour when you don't have to?

All the science in the world can't duplicate emotion. 

Freebird

The Pixies, The Clash, Radiohead, Blur, PJ Harvey, Yes, Mike Oldfield, The Band, Syd Barrett, Mike Bloomfield, The Police, and then there is this fella ...

BigLicks67

If you look at indie and alt rock there are more playing Tele's than Strat's these days, take Jonny Greenwood as an example.
You could argue the Strat is seen as the guitar that is used by boring old farts mostly for hanging on the wall and admiring the CS relic paint job.

Corvus

Neil said:

Three-ColourSunburst said:

I think the central point here is that, rationally, guitarists shouldn't care less about what they play, above and beyond having the sort of pickups, wiring and hardware that is most compatible with the sound they wish to create. Given that one's sound is determined by ones own skill; then the amp / pedals used; then the pickups feeding into that amp and the associated electronics; then to a more minor degree the picks used and the strings and other hardware fitted to the guitar, all else is pretty much an irrelevance, other than in relation to the 'image' one is trying to present.

Just look at some of the videos Darrell Braun has done - a LP versus a Tele Deluxe, 335 versus a LP, an Ibanez RG versus a Strat and so on - the differences in sound are tiny, and certainly much smaller than differences generated by the amp one uses, picking technique and so on, especially once an amp is being over driven.  Another good one is the video where Henning Pauly (eytschpi42) puts a Harley Benton up against a PRS and gets exactly the same tone. Here's another.



Beyond this, the cult of the '59 Les Paul, or the Clapton's black Strat and so on very much look like examples of the continued modern day belief in magic ( or 'mojo' as musiciams prefer to call it ). This is exactly the same belief in magic that manufacturers exploit when talk about 'tone woods', or the tonal benefits of using horse glue and old fashioned car paint whilst adding another 5 grand to the price! It is also the same sort of belief in mojo that affects many other domains as well, including the classical music world, where it has been shown that despite their reputation, even experts and top-line players cant tell the sound of a Strad' from that of a modern instrument!

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/05/million-dollar-strads-fall-modern-violins-blind-sound-check

If you want to be rational, sure.

However anything to do with art/music is never rational, it is all about emotion and to me how a guitar looks is the vital component.

They have to be the right guitars and they have to be the right colour. I wouldn't be happy otherwise.

Why put up with something you don't like the look of or hate the colour when you don't have to?

All the science in the world can't duplicate emotion. 

Quite right, and videos only tell a very small part of a story. Different guitars feel differently, respond differently, to me that's every bit a reason to chose the 335 over the Tele or whatever, as the pickups. They make me think, feel & play differently.

The different between a Strat and an LP might not be clear through a small amp or modelling or whatnot at home, but run them through a stack or a big amp and the different sound and feel is blindingly obvious.

Skipped

Some of these choices are happy accidents.

Clapton's 1964 Sg Standard was a very nice sounding guitar. Imagine if he had bought it just a couple of years before he did.
John Mayall might not have noticed. But Scott Chinery and Dirk Ziff would have noticed.

ICBM

boogieman said:

Isn't there a quote from Hendrix along the lines of "there's only two tones you can get out of a Telecaster. Bad and really bad." 

I think he said "only two sounds - good and bad". The reason is that until 1967, Tele stock wiring was the original 50s scheme which gives bridge pickup with volume control, bridge pickup with volume and tone controls (almost the same thing, really) and neck pickup with a preset bass/mud tone. Hence one good, one bad. Without rewiring it you couldn't get the Strat-like clear neck pickup tone he liked so much.

If he did say bad and really bad, maybe he didn't like the bridge pickup tone either...

RandallFlagg

ICBM said:

boogieman said:

Isn't there a quote from Hendrix along the lines of "there's only two tones you can get out of a Telecaster. Bad and really bad." 

I think he said "only two sounds - good and bad". The reason is that until 1967, Tele stock wiring was the original 50s scheme which gives bridge pickup with volume control, bridge pickup with volume and tone controls (almost the same thing, really) and neck pickup with a preset bass/mud tone. Hence one good, one bad. Without rewiring it you couldn't get the Strat-like clear neck pickup tone he liked so much.

If he did say bad and really bad, maybe he didn't like the bridge pickup tone either...

I thought this was the 50s Telecaster wiring scheme:

Position #1 (switch lever on the right): Bridge pickup alone with tone control engaged. (This is identical to today’s modern Telecaster wiring.)

Position #2 (switch lever in the middle): Neck pickup alone with tone control engaged. (On modern Telecasters, this position engages both pickups wired in parallel.)

Position #3 (switch lever on the left): Neck pickup alone with a bassy-sounding preset and no further tone control. (On a modern Telecaster, this selects the neck pickup alone with tone control engaged.)

This circuit is often referred to as the “dark circuit” or “blackguard” wiring and was roughly used from mid 1952 up to late 1967. Within this 15-year period, the circuit stayed mostly untouched, but Fender changed the specs of the two capacitors several times.

Electronically, the original dark circuit—often referred to as “dark circuit 1st generation”—features two 250k Stackpole audio pots, two Cornell Dubilier (CD) 0.05 µF/150V paper-waxed caps, and one 3-way pickup selector switch, originally from CRL with a 1452 imprint.

ICBM

Yes, you're right - I'm getting mixed up with the Esquire wiring .

Although the 50s Tele wiring has the bridge pickup with the volume control, not the tone control.

Either way it was probably the limitations of the wiring that he found too restrictive. 

streethawk

As an aside, j Mascis uses a tele for all his studio solos. Went through a brief period of playing one live too.

streethawk

Pic wouldn't attach so here it is.

Neil

streethawk said:

As an aside, j Mascis uses a tele for all his studio solos. Went through a brief period of playing one live too.

In an interview I read that for recording he only uses a Tele or LP Junior.

bingefeller

StuartMac290 said:

Purple Haze is a tele. There's a book about the search for the actual guitar used. 

A book about the guitar on Purple Haze?

streethawk

Neil said:

streethawk said:

As an aside, j Mascis uses a tele for all his studio solos. Went through a brief period of playing one live too.

In an interview I read that for recording he only uses a Tele or LP Junior.

P90 gibsons for rhythm, yes. And vox or fender amps. Completely different set up to his live rig.