Mo Farah

Philly_Q

guitarfishbay said:

I want to believe Bolt is clean.

I'm also suspicious of anyone still world class at sprinting in their mid 30s, since my very limited understanding of aging is a person will lose speed over 30.

But if Gatlin is clean he deserves to win.

I'm not defending Gatlin - I think he should have had a lifetime ban so he wouldn't be around now to muddy the waters - but right now I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.  

It seems to me that sportspeople generally are having longer careers, training methods and nutrition have become so much more sophisticated than they were in the days when footballers were retiring at 29 to become pub landlords.

tone1

I have trouble with people who have been previously been banned for drugs, in that all their Muscles were built whilst on drugs...
it's like an Alcoholic who stops drinking,his liver is still pickled 

digitalscream

tone1 said:

I have trouble with people who have been previously been banned for drugs, in that all their Muscles were built whilst on drugs...
it's like an Alcoholic who stops drinking,his liver is still pickled 

That's exactly the argument that many sprinters had with Gatlin coming back after his second ban.

ICBM

Personally I think the way to deal with - and hopefully deter in the first place - drugs cheats is to not only ban them for life from that point on, but also take away all their previous medals and records.

A bit sad to see Bolt not go out on a high, but I'm possibly sadder that he lost his 'triple triple' Olympic golds because of a cheating relay teammate, although it has to be the fair outcome if the team may not have won otherwise.

littlegreenman

Tour de France has a blank for all of Lance's "victories" between '99 and '05, he officially doesn't exist. And the ASO knowing that all of his adversaries were also doping, they've not bumped anyone up to replace him.

That's how it has to be. No suspensions, just bans, for life.

You cheat, you lose and get banned. Money doesn't see it that way though and so we saw the race tonight.

littlegreenman

As one of only 2 of the top 20 from the '05 Tour to have not failed a drug test, I do however still believe that Cadel Evans won the Tour in 06 clean.

That guy finished every stage of every tour he did looking like he was about to die, surrounded by riders who looked like they'd just cruised around a club run.

cj73

Gatlin shouldn't have been anywhere near that stadium last night
Lifetime bans for drugs cheats unless they grass up everyone who supplied/helped them do it.  If they grass then five year ban. 

Iamnobody

digitalscream said:

tone1 said:

I have trouble with people who have been previously been banned for drugs, in that all their Muscles were built whilst on drugs...
it's like an Alcoholic who stops drinking,his liver is still pickled 

That's exactly the argument that many sprinters had with Gatlin coming back after his second ban.

A massive grey area - my opinion is that drug use in top level sport is far more prevalent than just the ones who get caught.

What is the definition of clean?

Never used drugs ever?
Never used drugs as a professional? Never failed a test?

digitalscream

Iamnobody said:

digitalscream said:

tone1 said:

I have trouble with people who have been previously been banned for drugs, in that all their Muscles were built whilst on drugs...
it's like an Alcoholic who stops drinking,his liver is still pickled 

That's exactly the argument that many sprinters had with Gatlin coming back after his second ban.

A missive grey area - my opinion is that drug use in top level sport is far more prevalent than just the ones who get caught.

What is the definition of clean?

Never used drugs ever?
Never used drugs as a professional? Never failed a test?

I'd say that once can be a mistake - it is, after all, possible to fail a test and be innocent (over the counter remedies can contain banned substances). Twice...nope.

the_jaffa

I think the drugs thing is probably a contributory factor in Mo Farah not having a world record to his name. I'm certain that a lot of the current long distant records were drug assisted and hence difficult to beat by a clean athlete.

Just look at the Chinese runners who appeared from nowhere, took all the records then vanished about 15 years or so ago. There also seems to be a fair amount of drug use amongst the Kenyans in the past.

Therefore to judge Mo as not a great due to not having a WR is a little harsh imo. He really is a great. (Assuming he is clean)

I was very disappointed by Gatlin being allowed to make a return to Athletics after his second ban. There is no excuse at all for being caught a second time and there must be long lasting effects of the drug aided muscle growth that he is still benefitting from. He should never have been near that final last night.

digitalscream

the_jaffa said:

Therefore to judge Mo as not a great due to not having a WR is a little harsh imo. He really is a great. (Assuming he is clean)

And, aside from that, distance races are an entirely different proposition - Mo's priority has always been winning and getting his tactics right, rather than using pace makers to get a WR. I don't think there's any doubt that he could get a record if he'd tried.

the_jaffa

Yeah, good point. Much more tactical than the shorter events and medals beat WRs imo

Rocker

Impossible to accept a double drugs cheat as World Champion. What does this say about the sport of athletics?

Iamnobody

the_jaffa said:

I think the drugs thing is probably a contributory factor in Mo Farah not having a world record to his name. I'm certain that a lot of the current long distant records were drug assisted and hence difficult to beat by a clean athlete.

Just look at the Chinese runners who appeared from nowhere, took all the records then vanished about 15 years or so ago. There also seems to be a fair amount of drug use amongst the Kenyans in the past.

Therefore to judge Mo as not a great due to not having a WR is a little harsh imo. He really is a great. (Assuming he is clean)

I was very disappointed by Gatlin being allowed to make a return to Athletics after his second ban. There is no excuse at all for being caught a second time and there must be long lasting effects of the drug aided muscle growth that he is still benefitting from. He should never have been near that final last night.

I think they don't ban for life very often because the reality is more people use/have used than don't.

As a PR exercise to try and give the impression that they want to root it out they ban them short term. In industry  terms he's just one of the unlucky ones who got caught.