Would you buy relic or non relic

Exorcist

I do not get the idea of someone adding fake wear and tear? But each to their own...

Lozboy

I think we are all very fortunate that current manufacturers make an effort to cater for our every desire.Its our freedom of choice and wonga.So we get the choice they get the wonga.Surely its win win.

Sporky

Lewy said:

Agree 100% I don't know anyone who makes a living at music who takes a principled stand on this stuff.....they just go with whatever fits.

Isn't that because most people who make a living at music don't make enough of a living to be picky?

I'm mostly in the non-relic camp. I like shiny and new, and preferably sparkly. But if I was in the market for a guitar and a relic was the bestest one then I wouldn't spite my own nose off.

WezV

steer said:

Its a question for those of you that say "I would never have a relic".  What would you do if you broke a headstock or needed to change a few parts on an already worn guitars?   Would you go for a pristine repair and new shiny parts, or wear that matches the rest of the finish?

I would simply try to get a second hand neck off a guitar of the same type and age. If that were not possible, then a new one, but I would not get the blowtorch and chisel out  on the new neck. 

For changing parts, then new bits. They dont tend to look silly in my limited experience of replacing parts on a strat. 

an example of one i did a few years back was a 70's strat rebuild.  It needed a neck.   I went with a MIM 70's style neck and reliced to match the rest of the original 70's parts.

The problem i had with buying an original 70's neck was most of the ones available will have been removed for a reason, its a lot of money for something that will be junk.  In terms of reliability it made total sense to go with a modern neck, but it was extremely pale - far too consistently so even for a 70's neck.  So it got an aged finish.  Albeit with some clear hints to non-authenticity so it could not be passed off as something it wasn't.

No blowtorch or chisel went near it, but tinted lacquer, a razor blade and some "dirty" rags did

JayGee

I've wrestled with this issue a few times and come to the conclusion that given the budget I'd probably commission two identically specced guitars, leave one pristine, and have the other one reliced. :-)

usedtobe

I wouldn't go out to buy an artificially banged up guitar, but a more played in feeling guitar might appeal. Likewise something that looked older/felt played in.. I just don't particularly go for the artificially battered look..

normula1

I'm generally a non-relic person if I was to buy new. I don't have any issue buying a used guitar that has seen some life and as a result has some dings and scratches.
Having said that I spent an hour or so at @guitars4you the other week and Mark made the best case for a relic I've heard so far. If you were looking for a vintage guitar, would you honestly know what you were buying and be sure that you weren't getting ripped off? I know I wouldn't but I would know what I was buying with a relic which would at least have the looks. He had a reliced blue Strat that was droolsome even to a non believer like myself.

richardhomer

normula1 said:

I'm generally a non-relic person if I was to buy new. I don't have any issue buying a used guitar that has seen some life and as a result has some dings and scratches.
Having said that I spent an hour or so at @guitars4you the other week and Mark made the best case for a relic I've heard so far. If you were looking for a vintage guitar, would you honestly know what you were buying and be sure that you weren't getting ripped off? I know I wouldn't but I would know what I was buying with a relic which would at least have the looks. He had a reliced blue Strat that was droolsome even to a non believer like myself.

Refinished/changed parts/player-grade Fenders are a mine-field - as are some which are claimed to be 'original'. I've owned a few 'real' vintage guitars over the years and 'think' I know a fair amount about them - but given the widespread dishonesty among vintage dealers - I wouldn't dream of buying one now.

I too was a Relic-skeptic - but as I said earlier in the thread - my experience of playing them completely changed my perception. A decent Relic is the nearest to a real vintage Fender that you can get at 'real world' money. Slightly flatter fingerboards and slightly bigger frets make for an easier playing experience as well.

Interestingly I've never read any internet wisdom claiming that EC, Robert Cray et al sounded better when they played vintage guitars, rather than Custom Shop models.....

RandallFlagg

Of all the Fender Custom Shop guitars I see 'NGD'd' here, I reckon most of them are Relics.

dindude

Interestingly I've never read any internet wisdom claiming that EC, Robert Cray et al sounded better when they played vintage guitars, rather than Custom Shop models.....

Very true, and also many of the high profile Fender signature artists chose prestine Custom Shop examples - Clapton, Cray, Townsend, Beck etc etc

StuartMac290

I've played a few Fender relics that were really great guitars, but I just can't get on board with the concept. It's all a bit make-believe for me, and I can't help being reminded of grown men playing five a sides wearing replica football tops with their favourite player's name across the back. 

Heavy relics almost always look ridiculous too, and nothing like a vintage guitar. Isn't it interesting too that with actual vintage guitars the most desirable instruments by far are always the ones that DON'T have any dings and dents?

Bridgehouse

StuartMac290 said:

I've played a few Fender relics that were really great guitars, but I just can't get on board with the concept. It's all a bit make-believe for me, and I can't help being reminded of grown men playing five a sides wearing replica football tops with their favourite player's name across the back. 

Heavy relics almost always look ridiculous too, and nothing like a vintage guitar. Isn't it interesting too that with actual vintage guitars the most desirable instruments by far are always the ones that DON'T have any dings and dents?

I'd have thought your football shirt analogy was more akin to signature models.

And the "mint" vintage instruments are really only preferred by collectors. You have to ask the question as to why a vintage instrument was mint - is it because they aren't very good and weren't played much? A battered and beaten vintage probably got that way because it was well loved and is a real corker to play...

crunchman

RandallFlagg said:

Of all the Fender Custom Shop guitars I see 'NGD'd' here, I reckon most of them are Relics.

That's because it's very hard to buy a non-relic.

If you go in most dealers, 80% plus of the CS Fenders will be relics.  They might have 20 relics and 4 NOS.  The odds are the spec you want is likely to on a relic.  You end up buying a relic, so the dealer, and Fender, think that relics sell better than NOS and they make more relics.

When I bought the relic I had, I would have preferred the same spec in NOS, but it wasn't available.  A lot of knowledgeable people say that the relics sound better so I may have gone for the relic anyway, but it would be nice to have enough NOS, or at least Closet Classic, in stock to be able to try both.

RandallFlagg

crunchman said:

RandallFlagg said:

Of all the Fender Custom Shop guitars I see 'NGD'd' here, I reckon most of them are Relics.

That's because it's very hard to buy a non-relic.

If you go in most dealers, 80% plus of the CS Fenders will be relics.  They might have 20 relics and 4 NOS.  The odds are the spec you want is likely to on a relic.  You end up buying a relic, so the dealer, and Fender, think that relics sell better than NOS and they make more relics.

When I bought the relic I had, I would have preferred the same spec in NOS, but it wasn't available.  A lot of knowledgeable people say that the relics sound better so I may have gone for the relic anyway, but it would be nice to have enough NOS, or at least Closet Classic, in stock to be able to try both.

It's not hard to buy a non-relic at all but I agree dealers stock mostly relics so you would have to order and be prepared to wait.

Pete_B

I have a relic'd car, will swap for a new one.

Strat54

Oh god...22 years since the first Fender RELICS and we're still debating the same old. 

mike_l

New = shiny.
Old = wear.
If I was buying a brand new guitar, then shiny it is, if the guitar is used then wear is fine. "fake" wear, particularly when overdone is not good.

RandallFlagg

A recent guitar store exit survey claims that 99% of people who whine about Fender Custom Shop Relics and Gibson Custom Shop guitars can't afford to buy them.

crunchman

RandallFlagg said:

crunchman said:

RandallFlagg said:

Of all the Fender Custom Shop guitars I see 'NGD'd' here, I reckon most of them are Relics.

That's because it's very hard to buy a non-relic.

If you go in most dealers, 80% plus of the CS Fenders will be relics.  They might have 20 relics and 4 NOS.  The odds are the spec you want is likely to on a relic.  You end up buying a relic, so the dealer, and Fender, think that relics sell better than NOS and they make more relics.

When I bought the relic I had, I would have preferred the same spec in NOS, but it wasn't available.  A lot of knowledgeable people say that the relics sound better so I may have gone for the relic anyway, but it would be nice to have enough NOS, or at least Closet Classic, in stock to be able to try both.

It's not hard to buy a non-relic at all but I agree dealers stock mostly relics so you would have to order and be prepared to wait.

I'm not spending that kind of money on a guitar that I can't try first.

bobliefeld

I wouldn't specifically look for one but an artificially aged nitro finish wouldn't be a deal breaker.  I like the look of the checking.  That's a relic?  Or just "aged"?