Has the boutique bubble burst??

clarkefan

Not sure it is anymore to be honest.  Friedman and Wampler, for example, employ that facility and are perfectly open about it.  Both of them were on a youtube chat thing that Friedman hosts and both were perfectly up front about it, they even said they'd build you something if you really wanted and we're happy to pay for it, but you wouldn't want it cos they're not great at assembly

I personally think the unicorn tears stuff is dead, people are more realistic these days.

Dominic

Does it really matter?.....somebody has got to build it..........one man can only do so much
Bentley make a fine car but there are various parts sourced from factories all over the world

Modulus_Amps

polotska said:

ICBM said:

Which reminds me to ask - when people are talking about 'boutique' here or elsewhere, do they mean genuinely small companies like RiftAmps, MJW etc who are true one-man builders and still assemble more or less everything by hand, or do they mean the mass-produced amps and pedals which despite having dozens of different names on them, all come out of the same giant factory in (I think) California? Because those are not actually 'boutique' other than in marketing terms - they're at least as mass-produced as a Fender.

I think the company you’re referring to is “Boutique Amps Distribution” in the Los Angeles area. There’s a tour of the facility on YouTube (beware: the host of the video is extremely annoying):

Nice I will watch this tomorrow. Thing is without these "nameless" amp building companies you would probably not have allot of USA made boutique amps over here, certainly not at the speed they have been developed. It is the reason Cornford used a manufacturer in the UK, which eventually led to their demise. I expect that the same thing goes for Victory amps, overnight success by using the manufacturing muscle of someone else.

By contrast, as far as I know George at Metropolous amps in the USA is very much trying to build his own thing, but it is a hard road, and he has some cracking amps with really good build quality. I think that getting an a small amp company to the point where you are a true international brand without external support is very hard.

I have been told that Jessie does not build all the Lazy J amps and I have built amps that I have branded for other companies too, in this business you got to do what you got to do.

professorben

Modulus_Amps said:

polotska said:

ICBM said:

Which reminds me to ask - when people are talking about 'boutique' here or elsewhere, do they mean genuinely small companies like RiftAmps, MJW etc who are true one-man builders and still assemble more or less everything by hand, or do they mean the mass-produced amps and pedals which despite having dozens of different names on them, all come out of the same giant factory in (I think) California? Because those are not actually 'boutique' other than in marketing terms - they're at least as mass-produced as a Fender.

I think the company you’re referring to is “Boutique Amps Distribution” in the Los Angeles area. There’s a tour of the facility on YouTube (beware: the host of the video is extremely annoying):

Nice I will watch this tomorrow. Thing is without these "nameless" amp building companies you would probably not have allot of USA made boutique amps over here, certainly not at the speed they have been developed. It is the reason Cornford used a manufacturer in the UK, which eventually led to their demise. I expect that the same thing goes for Victory amps, overnight success by using the manufacturing muscle of someone else.

By contrast, as far as I know George at Metropolous amps in the USA is very much trying to build his own thing, but it is a hard road, and he has some cracking amps with really good build quality. I think that getting an a small amp company to the point where you are a true international brand without external support is very hard.

I have been told that Jessie does not build all the Lazy J amps and I have built amps that I have branded for other companies too, in this business you got to do what you got to do.

633 Amps use outside guys to do the cabinets and tolex. Does it matter? 
If I went to the Savoy I'm not expecting Gordon Ramsey to cook my meal himself. 

4114Effects

professorben said:9

Modulus_Amps said:

polotska said:

ICBM said:

Which reminds me to ask - when people are talking about 'boutique' here or elsewhere, do they mean genuinely small companies like RiftAmps, MJW etc who are true one-man builders and still assemble more or less everything by hand, or do they mean the mass-produced amps and pedals which despite having dozens of different names on them, all come out of the same giant factory in (I think) California? Because those are not actually 'boutique' other than in marketing terms - they're at least as mass-produced as a Fender.

I think the company you’re referring to is “Boutique Amps Distribution” in the Los Angeles area. There’s a tour of the facility on YouTube (beware: the host of the video is extremely annoying):

Nice I will watch this tomorrow. Thing is without these "nameless" amp building companies you would probably not have allot of USA made boutique amps over here, certainly not at the speed they have been developed. It is the reason Cornford used a manufacturer in the UK, which eventually led to their demise. I expect that the same thing goes for Victory amps, overnight success by using the manufacturing muscle of someone else.

By contrast, as far as I know George at Metropolous amps in the USA is very much trying to build his own thing, but it is a hard road, and he has some cracking amps with really good build quality. I think that getting an a small amp company to the point where you are a true international brand without external support is very hard.

I have been told that Jessie does not build all the Lazy J amps and I have built amps that I have branded for other companies too, in this business you got to do what you got to do.

633 Amps use outside guys to do the cabinets and tolex. Does it matter? 
If I went to the Savoy I'm not expecting Gordon Ramsey to cook my meal himself. 

A flawed analagy. Of course you're not. But you'd certainly be expecting a very highly trained and experienced chef to prepare it in the Savoy kitchen, from fresh ingredients. Not someone on minimum wage cooking it from instructions in a large warehouse, along with meals for 30 other posh London restaurants. 

Modulus_Amps

4114Effects said:

professorben said:9

633 Amps use outside guys to do the cabinets and tolex. Does it matter? 
If I went to the Savoy I'm not expecting Gordon Ramsey to cook my meal himself. 

A flawed analagy. Of course you're not. But you'd certainly be expecting a very highly trained and experienced chef to prepare it in the Savoy kitchen, from fresh ingredients. Not someone on minimum wage cooking it from instructions in a large warehouse, along with meals for 30 other posh London restaurants. 

ha ha I cant see Dave F walking around telling all the techs to fcuk off or being called tossers etc etc...

I like in the video the guy say no circuit boards while clearly pointing out an amp built with a circuit board, circuit boards are made to look like eyelet boards in these amps, they can still be hand assembled though.

anyway interesting video, gives people like me vision as to what can be achieved from a business point of view... little steps but I am getting there

professorben

4114Effects said:

professorben said:9

Modulus_Amps said:

polotska said:

ICBM said:

Which reminds me to ask - when people are talking about 'boutique' here or elsewhere, do they mean genuinely small companies like RiftAmps, MJW etc who are true one-man builders and still assemble more or less everything by hand, or do they mean the mass-produced amps and pedals which despite having dozens of different names on them, all come out of the same giant factory in (I think) California? Because those are not actually 'boutique' other than in marketing terms - they're at least as mass-produced as a Fender.

I think the company you’re referring to is “Boutique Amps Distribution” in the Los Angeles area. There’s a tour of the facility on YouTube (beware: the host of the video is extremely annoying):

Nice I will watch this tomorrow. Thing is without these "nameless" amp building companies you would probably not have allot of USA made boutique amps over here, certainly not at the speed they have been developed. It is the reason Cornford used a manufacturer in the UK, which eventually led to their demise. I expect that the same thing goes for Victory amps, overnight success by using the manufacturing muscle of someone else.

By contrast, as far as I know George at Metropolous amps in the USA is very much trying to build his own thing, but it is a hard road, and he has some cracking amps with really good build quality. I think that getting an a small amp company to the point where you are a true international brand without external support is very hard.

I have been told that Jessie does not build all the Lazy J amps and I have built amps that I have branded for other companies too, in this business you got to do what you got to do.

633 Amps use outside guys to do the cabinets and tolex. Does it matter? 
If I went to the Savoy I'm not expecting Gordon Ramsey to cook my meal himself. 

A flawed analagy. Of course you're not. But you'd certainly be expecting a very highly trained and experienced chef to prepare it in the Savoy kitchen, from fresh ingredients. Not someone on minimum wage cooking it from instructions in a large warehouse, along with meals for 30 other posh London restaurants. 

Not really flawed, I perhaps didn't include that the guys they use are local guitar builders who produce work of exceptional quality, so far far from being ' 'minimum wage' working from instructions. 

The one point I was making is that at some point, any business that wants to expand beyond what can be physically produced by one guy, has to take on staff, now to me it doesn't matter if those staff are employed by the guy or by a factory making things to the guys specifications. 

After all all if I buy a boutique box, it's the design of the circuit, selection of components and philosophy im buying rather than his soldering skills. 

jpfamps

Ultimately you should make a judgement on the price and quality of the product rather than whether it is "boutique" or not.

Designing and building amps are two very different skills and not that related in my opinion; in fact few "boutique" builders do much design work other than tweaking a few values in established designs. That's why I suspect the chassis shown above was "gooped", not so much that there was any thing new to hide, but that there wasn't anything new to hide!

Furthermore how much of an amp does a small builder need to make for it be "boutique"?

The metal work (so you want to pay for someone to punch holes in a chassis, when someone with a CNC machine could do the job cheaper and better)? Winding the transformers (I don't know any builders who do this; there are very good reasons for this)? Building the head shells (woodwork and electronics are different skills)? In which case you would be paying for the inefficiency of building the amp.