Lance Armstrong Documentary.

Gassage

Watched this last night- riveting stuff and I'd no idea just how deep this had gone.

I honestly can't think of any person who has disappointed the wider western world and sporting world more.

I also see the other side- which is everyone was doping too.

But to see a guy that was once iconic admit his whole career was a fraud and then show little self awareness or contrition over it saddened me greatly.

mgaw

watched that a while ago, didnt come out of it too well did old Lance.  Whole top end of that sport was at it and had been for a very long time. 

Teetonetal

The rumours always swirled round him so those who followed at the time were not that shocked. Almost all the winners from that era are disgraced or discredited.

the bit that really annoys people now is more to do with how agressively he pursued those how raised concerns. He broke careers and destroyed lives.

Horrible guy.

Gassage

He really came across as totally lacking any form of self awareness.

jpfamps

The UCI doesn't come out of it very well either.

Not only did they receive money from Armstrong, they almost certainly were complicit in covering up failed drugs tests.

mgaw

Teetonetal said:

The rumours always swirled round him so those who followed at the time were not that shocked. Almost all the winners from that era are disgraced or discredited.

the bit that really annoys people now is more to do with how agressively he pursued those how raised concerns. He broke careers and destroyed lives.

Horrible guy.

a ruthless pyschopath

JezWynd

Gassage said:

He really came across as totally lacking any form of self awareness.

Recipe for a winner. See Trump, D.

guitarfishbay

JezWynd said:

Gassage said:

He really came across as totally lacking any form of self awareness.

Recipe for a winner. See Trump, D.

And Charlie Sheen

axisus

The man is a complete tool. I try to avoid anything Lance these days as I feel he was the prime mover in destroying my lifelong love of the Tour de France, but I almost feel tempted to watch it if he comes out of it badly. 

stimpsonslostson

Which one are we talking about? There are a few. 
The Armstrong Lie is the best in my opinion- it's made by a filmmaker hired to film his return to the tour. When Lance was busted his film became worthless so he demanded an explanation from Lance and re-edited his footage to reflect the truth. It's in-depth, has good footage and critically has Lance actually talking about what he did. 

joneve

I urge anyone with any interest in doping scandals and the like, to watch Icarus on Netflix. Probably the best Sports documentary I've ever seen. 

danishbacon

The entire upper Peloton was doped.

Forget the morality of 'cheating' for a moment (riders have been using performance enhancing tweaks as old as the sport itself, beer at the end of the hill climbs in the early years etc). Also, respect given to the Sky team and the new 'clean' movement in the sport. 

Those who actually watched the tours during those years may agree, the hill battles and sprints were riveting. The performance and speed were intense. The involvement and dedication to being at the apex of physical performance (through physiological R&D) were exposed years later - but to me they don't detract. That was the game being played, and Lance played it best and was the champion of the time.

He should have quit while he was ahead, retired to southern france and spent his energy on wine and women. Instead he went for the american 'mea culpa' route.

crunchman

I don't think you can look at him in isolation.  There was a doping culture in professional cycling at the time that was everywhere and pretty much accepted as the norm.  If you look at the top ten of the 2005 Tour de France, Cadel Evans was the only one who was not caught up in drugs in some way.  10th placed Oscar Pereiro was given a retrospective TUE after failing a drug test for Salbutamol.   I'm pretty sure that all of the others were caught up in blood doping at some point.

The UCI have to take a lot of blame for this.  If they had busted Armstrong (and the others) earlier, then this wouldn't have been allowed to reach the point it did.

If you look at the shambles at the start of the 2006 Tour, where a whole bunch of riders were booted out days before, and the whole Astana team didn't compete, you see the extent of the problem.  None of the top 5 riders from the previous year were even in the race.  As far as I can remember that happened more because the Tour organisers got fed up and took unilateral action.  The UCI were sitting on their hands.

jonnyburgo

I think he got off lightly, should have been made to refund every sucker (me included) that bought and believed his book. 

Strangefan

I'm going to assume I'm the only one who was confused as to what the first man on the moon had to do with sport?..... Yup I'm an idiot! 

stimpsonslostson

jonnyburgo said:

I think he got off lightly, should have been made to refund every sucker (me included) that bought and believed his book. 

My local book shop moved it to the fiction section, which made me chuckle. 

Blaendulais

Rugby will be the next doping expose I reckon.  No amount of protein shakes develop muscle mass like some players reckon.  I dont mean the likes of Billy V etc who are large but the likes of Halfpenny who gets let go by the Ospreys academy for being too small and comes back 2 stone heavier and ripped.

Always been a problem in Wales (like so many other things!)

crunchman

Blaendulais said:

Rugby will be the next doping expose I reckon.  No amount of protein shakes develop muscle mass like some players reckon.  I dont mean the likes of Billy V etc who are large but the likes of Halfpenny who gets let go by the Ospreys academy for being too small and comes back 2 stone heavier and ripped.

Always been a problem in Wales (like so many other things!)

Rugby isn't as bad as the NFL.  Given the cardio and mobility requirements, too much bulk can be detrimental.  In the NFL, it's much more stop start, and you get time off the field to recover as you only ever normally play offence or defence but not both.  The players are much bigger.

Also, in Rugby you will at least get a 2 year ban if you test positive.

The NFL policies are a joke.  For a first offence you only get a 4 game ban.

What's worse is that Brian Cushing has been suspended for a second time for PEDs in the last few weeks, and he's only got 10 games.

The NFL needs to fall in line with other sports and ban for 2 years for a first offence, and life for a second offence.

What I find ridiculous is that the players union in the NFL fights the league at every turn when they try to do anything about drugs in the sport.  They fought for ages to stop the NFL testing for HGH.  You would think that the union should be trying to stamp doping out in the interests of their members' health.

prowla

I remember some years ago commenting in the office that all of the cyclists were on drugs and a very keen cyclist got really upset and aggressive about it.

joneve

crunchman said:

Blaendulais said:

Rugby will be the next doping expose I reckon.  No amount of protein shakes develop muscle mass like some players reckon.  I dont mean the likes of Billy V etc who are large but the likes of Halfpenny who gets let go by the Ospreys academy for being too small and comes back 2 stone heavier and ripped.

Always been a problem in Wales (like so many other things!)

Rugby isn't as bad as the NFL.  Given the cardio and mobility requirements, too much bulk can be detrimental.  In the NFL, it's much more stop start, and you get time off the field to recover as you only ever normally play offence or defence but not both.  The players are much bigger.

Also, in Rugby you will at least get a 2 year ban if you test positive.

The NFL policies are a joke.  For a first offence you only get a 4 game ban.

What's worse is that Brian Cushing has been suspended for a second time for PEDs in the last few weeks, and he's only got 10 games.

The NFL needs to fall in line with other sports and ban for 2 years for a first offence, and life for a second offence.

What I find ridiculous is that the players union in the NFL fights the league at every turn when they try to do anything about drugs in the sport.  They fought for ages to stop the NFL testing for HGH.  You would think that the union should be trying to stamp doping out in the interests of their members' health.

The NFLPA is an absolute joke of a union. 

Gassage

prowla said:

I remember some years ago commenting in the office that all of the cyclists were on drugs and a very keen cyclist got really upset and aggressive about it.

He'd probably just taken his Ephidrene stack.