New string concept: in-tune bends

UnclePsychosis

There's been a lot of chat about the appliance of science to guitars in these parts recently so this seems rather timely. A friend/former colleague of mine is both a professional acoustics/physics researcher and a rather tasty guitarist. He's developed a concept for new strings and the results/paper has just been published. I'm glad it has because I found out about it a while ago and wasn't allowed to tell anyone!!

Here's the idea:

" “While string sets have been available before with balanced tensions, those strings have featured different sensitivities, with all strings bending through different pitch intervals when the player performs identical movements.

“The laws of physics prevent equalised feel between different plain steel strings. With the new strings the properties are controlled to ensure that four of the strings (the plain G and the overwound D, A and low E strings) on a standard electric guitar bend through the same pitch intervals for identical player control changes, whether that be through conventional pitch bends (dragging the strings through a certain distance along a fret to increase tension) or through use of a tremolo/vibrato arm.

“The clearest demonstration of this is through listening to chords played on these strings during tremolo arm use.”

The new strings mean that chord bends can be achieved that have not been possible before on standard guitars, such as Fender Stratocasters with standard tremolo units or guitars with the Floyd Rose locking tremolo system."

https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/news/archive/2017/title,1614331,en.php

The strings can be heard in the videos on the link, there's also a link to the public access paper that explains how they work. They were custom made by Newtone.

Ravenous

Is this the same as those "calibrated" strings for Steinberger TransTrem systems?  Or am I thinking of something else?

Thanks for the link, will have to read it over the weekend.  (Now I'm dreaming of a multistring electric "Dan Bao" that can slide chords.)

UnclePsychosis

Ravenous said:

Is this the same as those "calibrated" strings for Steinberger TransTrem systems?  Or am I thinking of something else?

Thanks for the link, will have to read it over the weekend.  (Now I'm dreaming of a multistring electric "Dan Bao" that can slide chords.)

-the effect is the same but as I understand it the transtrem requires a specifically designed double ball trem system. The ones in the paper work purely by modifying the string so no hardware changes required. 

guitarmangler

Now that,  is all kinds of awesome. I would buy a set of those in a heartbeat. I wonder if they're just different gauges or just more winds on them to even up the balance?

Modulus_Amps

good, not if they could make the output signal from each string identical that would just finish it all off

stickyfiddle

In attempt to dredge up my 15-year-old physics A-level, I think this means the stings all have the same "spring constant", i.e. the same %age extension in string length will provide the same %age increase in tension, and therefore the same degree of pitch change. 

I'm not sure how this feeds into my theory of "Bigsbys and JMs sound better than Strat trems because of how the extra length affects the pitch change". Maybe this is an extension of that (i.e. trem use sounds better when the strings are downtuning to the same degree and the longer string length gets closer to that result with normal strings)

Either way, the vids certainly sound great.

Sassafras

I think we've all suffered more than enough from the 'appliance of science' just recently.

richardhomer

Surely bending in tune is more about the player’s ear than the properties of strings?

I’m pretty sure I bend in tune on any guitar, fitted with any string.

UnclePsychosis

richardhomer said:

Surely bending in tune is more about the player’s ear than the properties of strings?

I’m pretty sure I bend in tune on any guitar, fitted with any string.

- it's not about a single string. It's about bending four strings at once and they all stay in tune together. 

ICBM

UnclePsychosis said:

The new strings mean that chord bends can be achieved that have not been possible before on standard guitars, such as Fender Stratocasters with standard tremolo units or guitars with the Floyd Rose locking tremolo system."

https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/news/archive/2017/title,1614331,en.php

The strings can be heard in the videos on the link, there's also a link to the public access paper that explains how they work. They were custom made by Newtone.

Interesting, but for me the way the strings detune at different rates is a key component in the sounds of the different trem systems on different guitars, and why they don't all sound the same. It's why they all sound more "rock'n'roll" than a pitch bend pedal or a synth pitch wheel as well.

A long time ago I had a guitar with one of those Washburn Wonderbar trems that you could set up like a Transtrem - it did work, when set up right - but it just sounded wrong!

thermionic

Interesting bit of guitar physics. For a moment I thought it was the Tone Magnet guy again...

I suspect @ICBM has a point though. What we like about the sound of electric guitars is more to do with dissonance and imperfection than perfect harmony.

WezV

Yeah, I have built a transtrem string and had a guitar with a wonderbar.  It's fun for a few minutes but kinda odd when you are used to normal trems 

but i would still be interested in trying a set or two.  It's a good option


***

transtrem beats wonderbar because you can lock it in position and have instant drop tunings.  It's not just a trem.  Never set one up with a strobe tuner though... it is a quick road to madness

MartinB

If they do make it to market, it's an interesting concept.  I could see it catching on among the country guys who do that sort of faux-steel bendy stuff.  It might be less traditionally guitar-like, but someone may find that inspiring.  
What the paper said about string afterlengths and tremolo/bending range is worth reading too.  It's an issue that often comes up around reverse headstocks and the Hendrix thing, so it's good to see a clear explanation of what's going on there.  

DLM

Sassafras said:

I think we've all suffered more than enough from the 'appliance of science' just recently.

That was Zanussi, right? Is your washing machine leaking again?

menamestom

Could be interesting, but I would imagine you’d need a guitar specifically for the strings set up with a big wobbly trem.  But the effect sounds useful.

I like the tensions of the string I use in normal playing, I wouldn't want slacker feeling lower strings, so I could not anticipate putting them on all guitars.

But definitely worth a try, a cool idea.    SRV would have put a set on Lenny, if they had been available in the 80’s.

digitalscream

Does anybody who's been playing more than a year actually have a problem with hitting pitch on a bend?

Also, given that the instrument is by definition not intonated 100% correctly anyway yet almost everybody rejects "true-temperament" fretwork, who cares?

I know I don't. I'll rely on my fingers to compensate, because that's a big part of why I sound like me.

stickyfiddle

digitalscream said:

Does anybody who's been playing more than a year actually have a problem with hitting pitch on a bend?

No, but this is about bending multiple strings at once and having them all hit the same degree of pitch bend. 

UnclePsychosis

digitalscream said:

Does anybody who's been playing more than a year actually have a problem with hitting pitch on a bend?

Does anyone actually read posts anymore?      

Funkfingers

ICBM said:
for me, the way the strings detune at different rates is a key component in the sounds of the different trem systems on different guitars, and why they don't all sound the same. It's why they all sound more "rock'n'roll" than a pitch bend pedal or a synth pitch wheel as well.

^
This.

Simultaneous equal pitch bend of all notes is what you would expect from a sample replay keyboard. Steinberger TransTrem users such as David Torn taking an interest makes sense.

ICBM

MartinB said:

If they do make it to market, it's an interesting concept.  I could see it catching on among the country guys who do that sort of faux-steel bendy stuff.  It might be less traditionally guitar-like, but someone may find that inspiring.  
What the paper said about string afterlengths and tremolo/bending range is worth reading too.  It's an issue that often comes up around reverse headstocks and the Hendrix thing, so it's good to see a clear explanation of what's going on there.  

I actually wondered if it was possible to compensate the plain strings using the distance to the machineheads, although I haven't done the maths and I don't know if it would be possible on a headstock with sensible dimensions. It's certainly true that a reverse headstock does produce a closer approximation than a normal one - and a Gibson-stye one also should, if you used these new strings with a Bigsby.

DLM

digitalscream said:

Does anybody who's been playing more than a year actually have a problem with hitting pitch on a bend?

Slash has been at it rather longer than a year...

digitalscream said:
Also, given that the instrument is by definition not intonated 100% correctly anyway yet almost everybody rejects hardly anyone can afford "true-temperament" fretwork, who cares?

FTFY