Reasons to stay away from Dubai

CabbageCat

FX_Munkee said:

But where else can you play a decent game of "tourist or Russian hooker" these days?

My kids got quite good at it BTW.

I'm not going to ask how they established how they were right.

scrumhalf

FX_Munkee said:

But where else can you play a decent game of "tourist or Russian hooker" these days?

My kids got quite good at it BTW.

I remember arriving at Dubai airport and thinking that if they had a separate immigration desk for Russian hookers it would save so much time for the rest of us.

goldtop

stickyfiddle said:

I’m well aware of all of that but that video is already several years old (2011). They have passed huge reforms since then. 

Im not going to make excuses and I’m not going to argue as I’ve had the same conversations with plenty of people who’ve already made up their minds. 

It is a significantly more complex issue than is presented by left leaning western media.

It's not that complex, and blaming 'left leaning western media' when all you have to read is 'dictator supporting local media' is ... well, a bit rich. Here - https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/17/nyregion/nyu-labor-rules-failed-to-protect-10000-workers-in-abu-dhabi.html - is a 2015 report, and a nice little follow-up problem https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/nyregion/nyu-professor-is-barred-from-the-united-arab-emirates.html - surprise, surprise. And the UAE even blacklists Human Right Watch reseachers, “for being dangerous to public security.” See here: https://www.hrw.org/report/2015/02/10/migrant-workers-rights-saadiyat-island-united-arab-emirates/2015-progress-report

What is complex is the problem that every (Western) expat believing in basic human rights faces: to find some mental/moral acrobatics that make living there possible. To learn to ignore the top-to-bottom racism, backwards sexual morality and squashing of political debate. In the 21st Century. All the while kidding yourself that the UAE is modern and happening (hey look, a 7-star hotel!)

Like many expats before and since, I was able to say "I'm alright, Jack". Until one day I wasn't alright.

Boromedic

Where in Ab Dabs do you live @stickyfiddle? Currently living at Gate on Reem Island, lots of stuff to talk about but can't cos of the nature of my job. Simple rule here is if you come here obey the laws, regardless of whether you feel they are applied unfairly or otherwise. I would imagine there is more to the OPs case than is being told, and they are currently cracking down on those drinking without an alcohol license.

stickyfiddle

Boromedic said:

Where in Ab Dabs do you live @stickyfiddle? Currently living at Gate on Reem Island, lots of stuff to talk about but can't cos of the nature of my job. Simple rule here is if you come here obey the laws, regardless of whether you feel they are applied unfairly or otherwise. I would imagine there is more to the OPs case than is being told, and they are currently cracking down on those drinking without an alcohol license.

I'm over the road from Gate in Sun Tower! It's a nice area - I have several colleagues & friends in Gate and happy with it. Are you in the country already or looking to move?

Boromedic

Yeah Sun is nice and your windows open!! Lol, been here a few years, used to live at Etihad Towers but prefer it around Boutik, property management can be a nightmare but the facilities are great.

stickyfiddle

goldtop said:

stickyfiddle said:

I’m well aware of all of that but that video is already several years old (2011). They have passed huge reforms since then. 

Im not going to make excuses and I’m not going to argue as I’ve had the same conversations with plenty of people who’ve already made up their minds. 

It is a significantly more complex issue than is presented by left leaning western media.

It's not that complex, and blaming 'left leaning western media' when all you have to read is 'dictator supporting local media' is ... well, a bit rich. Here - https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/17/nyregion/nyu-labor-rules-failed-to-protect-10000-workers-in-abu-dhabi.html - is a 2015 report, and a nice little follow-up problem https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/17/nyregion/nyu-professor-is-barred-from-the-united-arab-emirates.html - surprise, surprise. And the UAE even blacklists Human Right Watch reseachers, “for being dangerous to public security.” See here: https://www.hrw.org/report/2015/02/10/migrant-workers-rights-saadiyat-island-united-arab-emirates/2015-progress-report

What is complex is the problem that every (Western) expat believing in basic human rights faces: to find some mental/moral acrobatics that make living there possible. To learn to ignore the top-to-bottom racism, backwards sexual morality and squashing of political debate. In the 21st Century. All the while kidding yourself that the UAE is modern and happening (hey look, a 7-star hotel!)

Like many expats before and since, I was able to say "I'm alright, Jack". Until one day I wasn't alright.

Again, I'm not saying there are no problems, I'm saying massive strides have been made and things are heading in the right direction. Change can't happen overnight. 

I'm certainly not blinkered to it - I read several international papers every day. Give me some credit! And we do quite a lot for charity trying to help labourers and maids and cleaners actually living here, rather than just whinging about it on the internet... But what is *always* missing is the comparison with living conditions for the same people were they to stay at home - conditions in India and Pakistan are often far worse than the worst of conditions here. I've seen the homelessness across India with my own eyes, and hundreds of labourers lined up outside markets hoping to get a day's work, and horrendous standards health & safety. I'm not an idiot, and I'm well aware that standards can always be improved anywhere, but that doesn't mean a single country is to blame in isolation. As I say, the laws are there (as recognised by the HRW report you linked to), but the guys implementing them are sometimes slow in following the new regs. But the current situation is a big improvement over many other countries in the region and it's still getting better - it won't happen overnight.  

I wouldn't say "I'm alright, Jack", at all. I'm very well aware of the issues and the steps being made to improve matters.  I'm directly involved in developing the contracts and technical requirements for government infrastructure projects across the region and one of our tasks is ensuring that HSE conditions are strictly enforced in contracts and that facilities are built & operated to ever-improving standards. 

And if you think bad things are happening, that isn't going to change by sitting in the UK and complaining about it on the internet. 

(and FWIW the Burj Al Arab is not actually a 7-star hotel and doesn't claim to be, again that's a western media fabrication :P )

stickyfiddle

Boromedic said:

Yeah Sun is nice and your windows open!! Lol, been here a few years, used to live at Etihad Towers but prefer it around Boutik, property management can be a nightmare but the facilities are great.

Nando's & Waitrose on the doorstep are a blessing...

We should meet up! Do you know any drummers? I keep finding people who play guitar but never a decent drummer to play with!

Boromedic

Yeah although my bank balance hates Waitrose!! I'll drop you a PM with my local number for whatsapp mate, although my playing now sucks as we had a little one 10 months ago and I've not picked it up in ages! I can play drums too but alas no kit as I stopped ages ago. Have yet to meet any other drummers here

Emp_Fab

I too love the UAE and in particular, Sheikh Khalifa bin Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan.  I've never been there or met his magnificence, but I'm just doing what those two above are. 

Snap

What I don't like about Dubai is what I don't like in general: fakery, backwards attitudes to human rights & equality, bragging and oppressive systems.

It has no soul - its just a collection of shopping centres and hotels. Again, two things I don't like.

I was there working last year. Its just a miserable place IMO. Even the sandy beach was fake! Stayed at JMR. The beach is false, and the view was a building site in the sea, where yet another flash hotel for brash flash Cheshire types was probably being built. In amongst the smog I had the lovely view of cranes and the vague repetitive clang of machinery. Nice.

Walk along the beach, on the fake sand, and park your bum in one of the many beach bars. Can I get a beer? Nah. Stroll down the beach path, amongst the pristeen chain restaurants, go inside for a meal. Have a bottle of wine with dinner? Nah. Not allowed.

I had the impression that most staff are scared stiff of their bosses, and constantly wary of being told off.

So you find a bar, eventually, and its full of loud nobby ex pats. I'll have 2 pints please:,certainly sir, that will be, oh, £20.

Watch yourself walking back with your mates, in case you inadvertanltly grab one or give them a pat, or a hug: you might get banged up for potentially being gay.

Don't put anything that could be vaguely derogatory or risque on social media while you are there, you might get nicked.

If you do get in trouble with the law over there,you are screwed as the consulate can do naff all.

Its one of the most soulless, artificial unpleasant places I have ever been. Not as bad as Saudi, but not much better really.

stickyfiddle

Snap said:

What I don't like about Dubai is what I don't like in general: fakery, backwards attitudes to human rights & equality, bragging and oppressive systems.

It has no soul - its just a collection of shopping centres and hotels. Again, two things I don't like.

I was there working last year. Its just a miserable place IMO. Even the sandy beach was fake! Stayed at JMR. The beach is false, and the view was a building site in the sea, where yet another flash hotel for brash flash Cheshire types was probably being built. In amongst the smog I had the lovely view of cranes and the vague repetitive clang of machinery. Nice.

Walk along the beach, on the fake sand, and park your bum in one of the many beach bars. Can I get a beer? Nah. Stroll down the beach path, amongst the pristeen chain restaurants, go inside for a meal. Have a bottle of wine with dinner? Nah. Not allowed.

I had the impression that most staff are scared stiff of their bosses, and constantly wary of being told off.

So you find a bar, eventually, and its full of loud nobby ex pats. I'll have 2 pints please:,certainly sir, that will be, oh, £20.

Watch yourself walking back with your mates, in case you inadvertanltly grab one or give them a pat, or a hug: you might get banged up for potentially being gay.

Don't put anything that could be vaguely derogatory or risque on social media while you are there, you might get nicked.

If you do get in trouble with the law over there,you are screwed as the consulate can do naff all.

Its one of the most soulless, artificial unpleasant places I have ever been. Not as bad as Saudi, but not much better really.

You seriously went to all the shit fake plastic bits and missed all the good stuff. 

Snap

stickyfiddle said:

Snap said:

What I don't like about Dubai is what I don't like in general: fakery, backwards attitudes to human rights & equality, bragging and oppressive systems.

It has no soul - its just a collection of shopping centres and hotels. Again, two things I don't like.

I was there working last year. Its just a miserable place IMO. Even the sandy beach was fake! Stayed at JMR. The beach is false, and the view was a building site in the sea, where yet another flash hotel for brash flash Cheshire types was probably being built. In amongst the smog I had the lovely view of cranes and the vague repetitive clang of machinery. Nice.

Walk along the beach, on the fake sand, and park your bum in one of the many beach bars. Can I get a beer? Nah. Stroll down the beach path, amongst the pristeen chain restaurants, go inside for a meal. Have a bottle of wine with dinner? Nah. Not allowed.

I had the impression that most staff are scared stiff of their bosses, and constantly wary of being told off.

So you find a bar, eventually, and its full of loud nobby ex pats. I'll have 2 pints please:,certainly sir, that will be, oh, £20.

Watch yourself walking back with your mates, in case you inadvertanltly grab one or give them a pat, or a hug: you might get banged up for potentially being gay.

Don't put anything that could be vaguely derogatory or risque on social media while you are there, you might get nicked.

If you do get in trouble with the law over there,you are screwed as the consulate can do naff all.

Its one of the most soulless, artificial unpleasant places I have ever been. Not as bad as Saudi, but not much better really.

You seriously went to all the shit fake plastic bits and missed all the good stuff. 

Possibly mate. Thing is, much as I asked, and looked, I couldn't see or find any good bits. The airport was alright....;)

Went up that bar at the top of the Burj, The Vault? Rubbish. Full of berks showing off. I dunno, there must be some good bits, but they are well buried.

Boromedic

It appears from the local newspaper that there is more to the story. The scottish guy was out drinking and either touched the german fella on the hip to stop himself falling, or grabbed his ass depending on who you believe. When the german guy turned around and questioned what he was doing, he flipped him the bird which is a big no no in the UAE.

What seems like an innocuous thing in the west is classed as public indecency in the UAE unfortunately. The german called the cops and the other guy was arrested. He has also been charged with drinking without an alcohol license. Whether you agree with it or not breaking the law wherever you are in the world is breaking the law, if someone came to the UK and broke our laws you would expect them to be dealt with. It may be a different culture, it may have some inbuilt contradictions, but he broke the law its that simple. Its up to the traveller to be aware of the rules and behave accordingly, in this day and age ignorance of the law is not a defence.

chillidoggy

They should get a room.

And hope to God they don't get caught.....

Boromedic

A German and a Scotsman walked into a bar.....

usedtobe

Doesn’t sound like my sort of place..

capo4th

I have often wanted to travel to Dubai but the thought of being locked up for kissing my wife terrifies me so I have never been. West coast Barbados is nice at this time of year. 

goldtop

There's a strange irony in it being illegal to display public affection to your wife, when it's perfectly fine for a man to hold hands with another guy as they wander down the street (see George Bush, for example).

Like most single Western expats, I had relationships, and had to completely hide it (mixed race, so even trickier). This means you never see love openly expressed in general, even at the most romantic of sunsets. This may partly explain why the place is irretrievably messed up.

capo4th

Bunch of religious nuts if you ask me almost tempting to go and test the law and cause a worldwide outrage.