Pedal power supply vs daisy chain?

hoofhearted

Hi Guys, 

I've always powered my pedals using a daisy chain as it seems to do the job and it means i dont have to add another box to my board, but it looks like proper power supplies a la the Trex Fuel Tank etc. are more popular. 
Just wondering what the benefits are to using a power supply to a daisy chain are, does it affect tone etc?

Cheers!

John_P

Some pedals can suffer with noise when they share the same power supply so using one with isolated outputs can solve that and keep it quiet.  
It can also be a way of supplying more current (or different voltages) for pedals that need it if the supply with a daisy chain isn’t big enough.  

Some supplies look look like they have separate outputs but they aren’t so it’s worth double checking the are isolated as well as watching the available current.  

TateFX

As above it comes down to noise so pedals need an isolated supply. I found I only needed to upgrade when I started using higher draw digital pedals like the DD500. Some Fuzz pedals can require an isolated supply.

EricTheWeary

I've never tried  one but Diago did an isolator adaptor ( looks like it's not in the current range?) which would enable you to run an unhappy pedal off a daisy chain. 

Everything on my board is entirely analogue apart from the tuner and as far as I can tell daisy chaining it all up does not add noise. My wireless squealed like a pig though so that's on a separate supply. 

english_bob

EricTheWeary said:

I've never tried  one but Diago did an isolator adaptor ( looks like it's not in the current range?) which would enable you to run an unhappy pedal off a daisy chain. 

I'm not sure it's still available. If it is, it had a fairly low limit on the amperage you could supply to pedals running from it- one of the reasons people end up running isolated supplies is because digital and analogue pedals don't always play nicely together on a daisy chain, but many digital pedals require a much higher mA than analogue.

In general, there might be *some* improvement in tone from using a "proper" PSU designed for audio applications, particularly if you're upgrading from a cheap and cheerful generic adaptor, but some of that might also be placebo. 

As long as you aren't hearing any unwanted buzz or hum (that doesn't go away when you turn the guitar volume down), whatever you're using now is probably fine. As and when your pedalboard draws more current than your PSU can comfortably provide, or if you need to isolate noisy pedals, or if you end up needing multiple voltages, then it's time to look at another PSU.

There's probably some wisdom in buying a really good PSU *before* you encounter those sorts of problems, particularly if you're a gigging musician, but given that it's likely to involve dropping £100 or more on something that isn't nearly as exciting as a new effects pedal you might not be in a rush...

hoofhearted

english_bob said:

EricTheWeary said:

I've never tried  one but Diago did an isolator adaptor ( looks like it's not in the current range?) which would enable you to run an unhappy pedal off a daisy chain. 

I'm not sure it's still available. If it is, it had a fairly low limit on the amperage you could supply to pedals running from it- one of the reasons people end up running isolated supplies is because digital and analogue pedals don't always play nicely together on a daisy chain, but many digital pedals require a much higher mA than analogue.

In general, there might be *some* improvement in tone from using a "proper" PSU designed for audio applications, particularly if you're upgrading from a cheap and cheerful generic adaptor, but some of that might also be placebo. 

As long as you aren't hearing any unwanted buzz or hum (that doesn't go away when you turn the guitar volume down), whatever you're using now is probably fine. As and when your pedalboard draws more current than your PSU can comfortably provide, or if you need to isolate noisy pedals, or if you end up needing multiple voltages, then it's time to look at another PSU.

There's probably some wisdom in buying a really good PSU *before* you encounter those sorts of problems, particularly if you're a gigging musician, but given that it's likely to involve dropping £100 or more on something that isn't nearly as exciting as a new effects pedal you might not be in a rush...

You hit the nail on the head there its hard to justify dropping 100 quid into fixing a problem that doesn't exist especially when you could use that cash to get yourself another pedal!

english_bob

hoofhearted said:

You hit the nail on the head there its hard to justify dropping 100 quid into fixing a problem that doesn't exist especially when you could use that cash to get yourself another pedal!

Exactly. We aren't all working with massive budgets. Until recently I'd been getting on fine with a One Spot and a couple of daisy chains. I added a couple of noisy, humming Line 6 M5s to my board and now I need a fancy PSU.

Shame there's nothing else out there that does what the M5 does but doesn't cost way more money.

clarkefan

An isolated PSU needn't cost more than a 1Spot, like a Harley Benton Power Plant Jr for example.  Of course, there's a tradeoff, if you want to power anything bigger than a DD-7 for instance you'll need to plan ahead, and spend more.

But I'm running about nine pedals, including a DD-20 (200 mah with a current doubler cable) with the Power Plant Jr, so it can be done, to a point.

GavRichList

Sadly, it does make a fairly sizeable difference in certain cases. Upgrading to (two) decent power supplies and good patch cables reduced my board to near silence, which given the size, is no small achievement. 

Beexter

I use a Gigrig isolator with a one-spot for a small pedalboard which gives me 4 isolated outputs and keeps the cost and weight sensible.

Lestratcaster

I used to daisy chain and mostly used Boss pedals and didn’t encounter any noise from ground loops etc. Now I gig more regularly I use the Fuel Tank Junior and have never had any issues. It’s more for reassurance all pedals are powered sufficiently so I can concentrate on playing.

impmann

I never thought it was a problem til I noticed how much noisier my stage set up was to the other guitarist in my band... so I upgraded to a Voodoo Labs set up. This was much quieter but was a touch heavy.
Ive changed to a full GigRig set up with isolators etc and it’s even quieter despite having 10 pedals on the board (including an M5). F’ing expensive but much lighter and very quiet.
If it’s not bothering you, it’s not an issue but I’ve loved the improvement to my sound from not having humming, digital clock noise etc sitting in the background. Although how much of that can be heard in a band mix in a pub is a bit moot...

andyp

I've been thinking about this issue too. I have seen some videos on the OneSpot Pro CS7 and it looked perfect, but it's over £100. The Harley Benton PowerPlant looks to be almost the same thing but it's only £35. I don't really want to spend much money on this sort of thing but the OneSpot daisy chain I'm using just now is a bit messy and I would like to both tidy the board up and basically upgrade a bit to better kit.

How good are the HB PowerPlants? Is it a false economy and I'm better just biting the bullet and getting a OneSpot CS7?

edit - here's a link, they seem sturdy and well spec'd

https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_powerplant.htm?ref=search_rslt_power+supply_119603_25

Beexter

The full size Powerplants aren't isolated but the Power plant JR is IIRC...

John_P

The HB jr is the bargain of power supplies imo. Just watch that you can manage with 100mA outputs (or fewer outs if you use a current doubler)

andyp

Ok, cheers. That's the kind of thing I was needing help with. I have 7 pedals so might need to daisy chain my tuner to something else.

Is 100mA generally ok unless it's something big?

DannyP

I used to cobble together whatever I could manage with daisy chains, but started to run into trouble around the same time I was about to start doing some theatre shows where it was a requirement to run very quietly. I bought the big Harley Benton, which was rubbish and noisy - but it's not isolated like the HB Jr which as @John_P says, is a good buy. I ended up with a Decibel 11 Hot Stone Deluxe and an ISP Decimator sound gate and my board runs quietly now, no matter what Chinese clone rubbish I bung on there!

andyp

How about one of these ? Are they any good?

It says it's isolated, 9V, 12V and 18V. Appears to get good reviews etc and has 10 outputs.

english_bob

andyp said:

Ok, cheers. That's the kind of thing I was needing help with. I have 7 pedals so might need to daisy chain my tuner to something else.

Is 100mA generally ok unless it's something big?

100mA is more than enough for just about any analogue effect you can think of - in fact you could probably run several from the same 100mA output. For more complex digital pedals it's unlikely to reliably be enough - my DD500 needs 200mA, the M5s somewhere between 250 and 500mA depending on who you ask. Strymon, Eventide and the like will be fairly demanding too.

http://stinkfoot.se/power-list is a really useful resource for working out what your power requirements are.

andyp

Awesome, cheers!

andyp

I just realised that my link above didn't work. It was this one - the Caline Power 10 output model.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Guitar-Pedal-Power-Supply-Overcurrent/dp/B06XPG8B71/ref=sr_1_4?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1509615532&sr=1-4&keywords=guitar+power+supply