Roland Blues Cube Artist: kaput and irreparable

Marshall

Beexter said:

 Marshall said:

The real puzzle is why, given there's really no new technology involved, almost no-one has managed to make such a good-sounding solid-state amp in the last twenty or thirty years.

Was lucky enough to catch some great acts @ the Tenby blues festival over the weekend, among which was a small 3 piece with frontman singer doing a very tasteful set of older school blues/blues-rock based stuff, canned heat and the like - the guitarist was mostly on a standard Lester through this tiny looking tweed covered amp with SESSION written on the front. Never seen one so asked him about it during the break and was surprised to hear him tell me it’s SS. The tone and amazingly big sound he was getting from it I would have sworn was valve along the lines of a LJ20 or such...Impressive!

Anyone know anything more or have experience with these?

Might have been a Sessionette 75. They were available in a grey tweed finish.  I used to have one and they belt out some volume for their size. I think SS amps have moved on a bit since then though..

I have to confess I was ‘rather drunk’ at the time, but looking at that page menameston posted, the name BluesBaby seems to ring a bell...will have to ask my brother-in-law who was being more responsible than me (as usual)...

impmann

The BluesBoy is Award Session's latest amp - its based on the size of a Blues Junior and it is, as you say, SS. Its supplied as a kit to replace the Blues Junior chassis and some folks have gone one stage further and finished them in all sorts.

Stewart Ward has been building great sounding SS amps since the 80s. I gigged my old Sessionette 75 for decades - and it handled everything from country to punk. Great little amps if you know how to dial them in, and also offer superb pedal platforms.

They aren't for everyone - I know @ICBM for example doesn't rate them - but those who do are fanatical. My cousin has two Sessionette 75s that he uses with his Les Paul most weekends - two because they tend to 'beam' and that way he can fill the stage.

FWIW there have been *LOTS* of great SS amps - but because it isn't "cool" to talk about them, they get forgotten about. The Peavey Bandit is absolutely brilliant - and bulletproof for example.

TimmyO

I've gigged a Bandit before - a teal stripe one, a red stripe one and the modern one - all sounded good and held up

The modern one weighs as much as most valve amps though iirc! 

Marshall

impmann said:

The BluesBoy is Award Session's latest amp - its based on the size of a Blues Junior and it is, as you say, SS. Its supplied as a kit to replace the Blues Junior chassis and some folks have gone one stage further and finished them in all sorts.

Stewart Ward has been building great sounding SS amps since the 80s. I gigged my old Sessionette 75 for decades - and it handled everything from country to punk. Great little amps if you know how to dial them in, and also offer superb pedal platforms.

They aren't for everyone - I know @ICBM for example doesn't rate them - but those who do are fanatical. My cousin has two Sessionette 75s that he uses with his Les Paul most weekends - two because they tend to 'beam' and that way he can fill the stage.

FWIW there have been *LOTS* of great SS amps - but because it isn't "cool" to talk about them, they get forgotten about. The Peavey Bandit is absolutely brilliant - and bulletproof for example.

Really helpful info, cheers

mbe

rlw said:

BluesyDave said:

mbe said:

TimmyO said:

Eee it were better back then, when it were all fields and rickets and dysentery  

Back then we used to dream about amplifiers and had to make do with Marshall stacks painted ont' cellar wall

You had a CELLAR!!!??

Cupboard under the stairs more like :-(

No, it was really the coyl 'oyl as we speaketh North of Barnsley.

mbe

rlw said:

BluesyDave said:

mbe said:

TimmyO said:

Eee it were better back then, when it were all fields and rickets and dysentery  

Back then we used to dream about amplifiers and had to make do with Marshall stacks painted ont' cellar wall

You had a CELLAR!!!??

Cupboard under the stairs more like :-(

No way! We had a proper coyl 'oyl as we say North of Barnsley.

Three-ColourSunburst

fields5069 said:

I think, on balance after reading this thread, I would be tempted in future to go for something like an Orange Crush Pro, for solid state. I'm assuming that amp would be more maintainable, with only the reverb being DSP. I'd be interested if anyone has opened one of those up....

Doesn't this description apply equally well to the Blues Cubes? As I understand the only thing digital on them is the reverb, with the amplification being achieved via analogue circuits that use discreet FET transistors? At last that is what is suggested here:

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11865.25

In comparison the Katanas use DSP to model what the Blues Cube's achieve with analogue circuits. This - along with the use of a cheaper speaker and a particle board rather than beech ply cabinet - is what accounts for the difference in price between the Blues Cubes and the Katanas.

I wonder how different they are from the original Blue Cubes, the schematics for which seem to be widely available? (See below.) I have read these even these early models were basically 'a Bassman realized with FETs'.

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/misc_amp/roland_blues_cube30_60.pdf

bingefeller

I'm just surprised to hear a Roland amp break down, I thought they were very reliable.  I've had many Cube amps over the years and they have never given me a problem (touch wood). 

HAL9000

bingefeller said:

I'm just surprised to hear a Roland amp break down, I thought they were very reliable.  I've had many Cube amps over the years and they have never given me a problem (touch wood). 

Same here. I've had three or four Cubes of differing wattages and  model designations. Nothing has ever gone wrong. However I am aware of cases where they have either stopped working altogether, or some of the features (such as effects) stopped working but the 'make louder' bits still worked.

jpfamps

impmann said:

jpfamps said:

If companies don't want to help people like me repair their products, that's entirely a matter for them.

However, they can't complain when I explain to customers why I can fix said products..........

Incidentally BOSS are one company that I would say generally very helpful with both technical support and parts.

I get the feeling you have a bee in your bonnet about this!

As I said above, its not about "companies don't want to help people like me" and whilst I can't speak for the company now, when I was running the service department I would always try to help as far as we could. The company can complain if the tech shall we say 'embellishes' the story to make a point and then the customer phoned me to complain... its happened, and its awkward because you don't want to accuse the tech of being a dick about it (when they have), especially when this reflects badly on my team who were actually doing all they could to help.

But hey - perhaps we'll agree to differ. Different viewpoints of the same argument - often with the customer stuck in the middle.

And that's why I always suggest the customer talking to the manufacturer where possible, especially on high-tech gear where bespoke parts are likely to have been used.

Actually I don't have a bee in my bonnet about this at all (although I consider the policy of not giving out schematics as counter productive, especially for obsolete products).

Companies are free to pursue whatever policy they see fit.

We fix tons of stuff without any tech support / schematics, however for some gear, pedals especially, this either impossible or uneconomic due to the low price of the item.

Some companies are "better" than others in this regard. 

We are very much at the front line of repairs and from time to time have to explain to customers why we can't fix something (or even attempt to fix something). Most customers are very reasonable, but a few aren't.

I do have a bee in my bonnet about gooping PCBs though...................

ICBM

jpfamps said:

Actually I don't have a bee in my bonnet about this at all (although I consider the policy of not giving out schematics as counter productive, especially for obsolete products).

Companies are free to pursue whatever policy they see fit.

We fix tons of stuff without any tech support / schematics, however for some gear, pedals especially, this either impossible or uneconomic due to the low price of the item.

Some companies are "better" than others in this regard. 

We are very much at the front line of repairs and from time to time have to explain to customers why we can't fix something (or even attempt to fix something). Most customers are very reasonable, but a few aren't.

I do have a bee in my bonnet about gooping PCBs though...................

Completely agree with all this.

I don't have any problem telling someone I can't repair their gear, and for the rare awkward ones, why I won't even try. If they want to find someone else who will, they're more than welcome... chances are it will be a waste of their time and money, but if there's someone who can genuinely fix it then good luck to them.

fields5069

Three-ColourSunburst said:

fields5069 said:

I think, on balance after reading this thread, I would be tempted in future to go for something like an Orange Crush Pro, for solid state. I'm assuming that amp would be more maintainable, with only the reverb being DSP. I'd be interested if anyone has opened one of those up....

Doesn't this description apply equally well to the Blues Cubes? As I understand the only thing digital on them is the reverb, with the amplification being achieved via analogue circuits that use discreet FET transistors? At last that is what is suggested here:

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11865.25

In comparison the Katanas use DSP to model what the Blues Cube's achieve with analogue circuits. This - along with the use of a cheaper speaker and a particle board rather than beech ply cabinet - is what accounts for the difference in price between the Blues Cubes and the Katanas.

I wonder how different they are from the original Blue Cubes, the schematics for which seem to be widely available? (See below.) I have read these even these early models were basically 'a Bassman realized with FETs'.

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/misc_amp/roland_blues_cube30_60.pdf

I was under the impression that the Blues Cube and Katana had the same tech in them, just cheaper in the Katana's case. I understood that the power section was at least enhanced by DSP, to model the speaker interaction or some such.

Paul_C

The Katana is based on (IIRC) the GT100, and with the right software (not official though) you can access lots more amp models etc.

Three-ColourSunburst

fields5069 said:

I was under the impression that the Blues Cube and Katana had the same tech in them, just cheaper in the Katana's case. I understood that the power section was at least enhanced by DSP, to model the speaker interaction or some such.

The basic theoretical approach might be the same - creating circuits that respond in a way that is analogous to the way the various components of a valve amp respond to input and each other - but the hardware implementation is very different.

According to several sources on the web the Blues Cubes use discreet FET transistors, both in their analogue preamps and tone stack, whilst the Katana the signal is processed via an ESC2 DSP chip. (Which is used in a lot more Roland products as well.) No ESC2 chip in the Blues Cube!  Might be some DSP going on late in the signal chain but the basic sound does seem to be produced by analogue circuits using discreet FET's.

Some more details of just what chips the Katana's use can be found following the links on the page below. Unfortunately many of the pictures seem to be gone now. (But can still be found via Google.)

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/boss-katana-amplifiers.1744135/page-291

fields5069

Pretty sneaky of BOSS, in a way. I'm pretty sure they're making the Katana out to be the same sort of box as the Blues Cube.

xDottore

UPDATE 4 December, 2017 (sorry, been busy so no action on this front until today).

The "official" people recommended by Roland on their website (thanks @RiftAmps) finally replied today, after I called on 9 November, thus: 

Really sorry but just spoken to the engineer and he says we don't deal with this model. 
 
Regards,
Julie
Puretech Solutions Ltd
Mob: 07796 273557
Office: 0845 128 4362
puretechsolutions.co.uk

"Computer says no". 

I called Guitar Aid (thanks @Gassage) just now who said, "bring it and we'll have a look". So, off to Putney for me some time this week, with fingers crossed.

A big raspberry to Roland. 

BigMonka

Wow, that's pretty rubbish for a current model!

Three-ColourSunburst

Dottore said:

UPDATE 4 December, 2017 (sorry, been busy so no action on this front until today).

The "official" people recommended by Roland on their website (thanks @RiftAmps) finally replied today, after I called on 9 November, thus: 

Really sorry but just spoken to the engineer and he says we don't deal with this model. 
 
Regards,
Julie
Puretech Solutions Ltd
Mob: 07796 273557
Office: 0845 128 4362
puretechsolutions.co.uk

"Computer says no". 

I called Guitar Aid (thanks @Gassage) just now who said, "bring it and we'll have a look". So, off to Putney for me some time this week, with fingers crossed.

A big raspberry to Roland. 

Aren't there any other authorised Roland repair centres that you can try?

Puretech call themselves a 'Digital piano and keyboard repair specialist' and don't seem to mention amp repairs anywhere on their web site, just the following.

   •    For Keyboard repairs and servicing click here
    •    For Digital piano repairs and servicing click here
    •    For Electronic Drum Repairs click here
    •    For Wind Controller Repairs click here
    •    For Yamaha Disklavier, Silent Piano & Avantgrand repairs & servicing click here
    •    For Coomber Unit repairs and servicing click here
    •    For schools/colleges please click here to visit our education page
    •    For Piano Hire click here

ICBM

Given that the level of complexity inside a digital piano is significantly higher than inside a guitar amp, and that a digital piano contains a power supply, a power amplifier and speakers then it seems unlikely to me that anyone who can fix a digital piano can't fix a modern solid-state guitar amp... although the reverse may not be true.

It sounds like they just don't want to know, to me. Either that or they think that all guitar amps contain valves . I could understand a solid-state engineer not wanting to work on valve gear if it's outside their experience.

jpfamps

It could just be that they only want to deal with keyboards.