Could you wire this up?

robinbowes

p90fool said:

robinbowes said:

I didn't suggest a schematic in lieu of a wiring diagram - they're not mutually exclusive.

As for it being "snobbery", what a ridiculous thing to say. 

R. 

 Snobbery is a little strong, no offence intended, but surely when trying to make a product commercially available it's unwise to write the manual in a professional's code?

I like proper schematics too, rather like staff notation it's reliable, repeatable and leaves no room for ambiguity, but only for those who speak the language. 

Once again, I'm not suggesting a schematic *replace* one or more wiring diagrams, but I would expect to see one *in addition* to the wiring-by-numbers guides.

An analogy: I wouldn't expect to see the schematic of an amplifier in the user manual, but I'd expect there to be a service manual available containing the schematic.

R.

p90fool

On a side note @Alegree , where did you find a rotary switch suitable for a thick Les Paul top? I've been looking for one for a while for my Varitone shenanigans.

RiftAmps

p90fool said:

On a side note @Alegree , where did you find a rotary switch suitable for a thick Les Paul top? I've been looking for one for a while for my Varitone shenanigans.

http://www.ampmaker.com/store/Rotary-switch.html - Just cut the shaft to length

p90fool

RiftAmps said:

p90fool said:

On a side note @Alegree , where did you find a rotary switch suitable for a thick Les Paul top? I've been looking for one for a while for my Varitone shenanigans.

http://www.ampmaker.com/store/Rotary-switch.html - Just cut the shaft to length

Ah, I meant the threaded portion, not sure that will work. 

DefaultM

I could, but it would take ages so I probably wouldn't bother. Also looks like if you take a wrong step or make a bad connection it's going to be difficult to work out where you went wrong.

In general I just don't trust that the different modes on products like this will be as good as the originals. Plus when it's that complicated to set up I don't really want to try it either to find out.

Alegree

DefaultM said:

I could, but it would take ages so I probably wouldn't bother. Also looks like if you take a wrong step or make a bad connection it's going to be difficult to work out where you went wrong.

In general I just don't trust that the different modes on products like this will be as good as the originals. Plus when it's that complicated to set up I don't really want to try it either to find out.

Ah ha. I think that's where the confusion is coming from.
I'm not asking if you could do this from scratch, I'm asking if you could receive a harness like this and wire the pickups in.

They're absolutely as good as the originals. I've shot a video to demonstrate that I'm working through editing at the minute.

DefaultM

Oh I see. Then yes I could. 

In theory I'd really like to have pickups like this if they were as good as the originals, but I think they'd have to be on a studio guitar. 

I always remember when I took a selection of switches and push pulls to my guitar tech and asked him if he could make me a really versatile set up with loads of different switching options. He said he could, but asked how I planned on using it live, because the likelihood is that I'd either forget what the options were or it would be difficult to get to them in time. 

Alegree

DefaultM said:

Oh I see. Then yes I could. 

In theory I'd really like to have pickups like this if they were as good as the originals, but I think they'd have to be on a studio guitar. 

I always remember when I took a selection of switches and push pulls to my guitar tech and asked him if he could make me a really versatile set up with loads of different switching options. He said he could, but asked how I planned on using it live, because the likelihood is that I'd either forget what the options were or it would be difficult to get to them in time. 

Fire your tech. What silly advice. 

A week of playing with a guitar with a few switches is all it takes to use them instinctively. There's just as much chance of forgetting a simple chord sequence as forgetting what a switch and a couple of push/pulls do. 

Plus of course, even if you do forget it occasionally, there's no compromise anyway.

WezV

Alegree said:

DefaultM said:

Oh I see. Then yes I could. 

In theory I'd really like to have pickups like this if they were as good as the originals, but I think they'd have to be on a studio guitar. 

I always remember when I took a selection of switches and push pulls to my guitar tech and asked him if he could make me a really versatile set up with loads of different switching options. He said he could, but asked how I planned on using it live, because the likelihood is that I'd either forget what the options were or it would be difficult to get to them in time. 

Fire your tech. What silly advice. 

A week of playing with a guitar with a few switches is all it takes to use them instinctively. There's just as much chance of forgetting a simple chord sequence as forgetting what a switch and a couple of push/pulls do. 

Plus of course, even if you do forget it occasionally, there's no compromise anyway.

lets not fire him just yet

I think the tech asked a very sensible question.  How do you plan on using it?   That is what every tech should ask whenever he is asked for anything non-standard.  

One "issue" with lots of pickup options is you can get more variation in output.  On a studio guitar it  matters less.  On a live guitar it can be frustrating.  

I am sure we would all agree getting the layout right is quite important in making a complex switching system usable.  the more you add, the harder that becomes.   a bit of logic helps keep things usable and you seem to have applied that here.  

When i had my shergold I often forgot what the switching options were.   It had an extra couple of switches for hum/OOP/ single and i could never quite remember what it was supposed to do.  The problem wasn't just because i'm stupid. I have fitted a lot of guitars with series/single/parallel switches and despite knowing the shergold wasn't wired that way its still what i expected when using them.  It did become obvious when playing, I am just making the point that complex switching becomes harder to remember when you have different schemes on different guitars.  


lastly, some guitarists ask for all the options, then only use 2 or 3.   I would guess that happens on 90% of guitars with complex switching.

If someone came to me with loads  of switches and a vague idea about having loads of options, i would ask the same question.

None of that takes away from your idea.

Alegree

WezV said:

Alegree said:

DefaultM said:

Oh I see. Then yes I could. 

In theory I'd really like to have pickups like this if they were as good as the originals, but I think they'd have to be on a studio guitar. 

I always remember when I took a selection of switches and push pulls to my guitar tech and asked him if he could make me a really versatile set up with loads of different switching options. He said he could, but asked how I planned on using it live, because the likelihood is that I'd either forget what the options were or it would be difficult to get to them in time. 

Fire your tech. What silly advice. 

A week of playing with a guitar with a few switches is all it takes to use them instinctively. There's just as much chance of forgetting a simple chord sequence as forgetting what a switch and a couple of push/pulls do. 

Plus of course, even if you do forget it occasionally, there's no compromise anyway.

lets not fire him just yet

I think the tech asked a very sensible question.  How do you plan on using it?   That is what every tech should ask whenever he is asked for anything non-standard.  

One "issue" with lots of pickup options is you can get more variation in output.  On a studio guitar it  matters less.  On a live guitar it can be frustrating.  

I am sure we would all agree getting the layout right is quite important in making a complex switching system usable.  the more you add, the harder that becomes.   a bit of logic helps keep things usable and you seem to have applied that here.  

When i had my shergold I often forgot what the switching options were.   It had an extra couple of switches for hum/OOP/ single and i could never quite remember what it was supposed to do.  The problem wasn't just because i'm stupid. I have fitted a lot of guitars with series/single/parallel switches and despite knowing the shergold wasn't wired that way its still what i expected when using them.  It did become obvious when playing, I am just making the point that complex switching becomes harder to remember when you have different schemes on different guitars.  


lastly, some guitarists ask for all the options, then only use 2 or 3.   I would guess that happens on 90% of guitars with complex switching.

If someone came to me with loads  of switches and a vague idea about having loads of options, i would ask the same question.

None of that takes away from your idea.

Why is having more options than you're going to commonly use a bad thing? I can't get my head around the idea that simplicity is best if a versatile setup can offer the same quality. But I digress, this horse has been well and truly beaten prior to this thread.

I'm well aware the vast majority of people here are traditionalists, and I wasn't expecting the idea to get an overwhelmingly positive reception, as the target market is very under represented.  Nevertheless, I suspect the wiring abilities will be similar to that of the target market, and the insight I've received so far relating to that has been very useful.

WezV

Seriously dude, i respect what you are trying to do here but you need to be a bit less defensive

 writing it off as traditionalism misses the point and is frankly a bit condescending. Know your audience

 I certainly love traditional guitar designs, and choose to ignore them and do my own thing when it suits me. I have spent a lot of time coming up with non-traditional wiring schemes myself. I have spent a lot longer experimenting with non-traditional guitar design.

 The thing you seem to be ignoring is that many of the "traditionalists" have tried to do what you are doing here before, and are simply relating their experiences back to you.

 They are not trying to write off your efforts. You may have got the pickup recipe better than anyone has managed before, i am certainly interested in that.

Sporky

I think I have established "form" for complex switching systems; examples include a guitar with P-rails that had four push-pulls, a 5-way superswitch and a 3-way rotary, a guitar with a Variax plus magnetic pickups and blend, and more recently a guitar with 3 P90-sized 'buckers, a 6-way rotary and a push-pull.

I am increasingly of the opinion that a 3-way switch (possibly with considerable electrical magickery behind it) is enough options on one guitar. Being able to pre-select those options is useful, but while playing you need typically 2-3 sounds at your fingers.

amarok1971

Is a freeway switch ok for live use? 

Sporky

amarok1971 said:

Is a freeway switch ok for live use? 

My experience is that they're bloody useless all the time. 4 positions are usable, the middle ones are not.

amarok1971

Hmm I thought as much

Sporky

I've got one of the early ones in a guitar - the later may have a more positive switch.

Otherwise I'd rather* have a 6-way rotary.

*subject to previous comments

sweepy

WezV said:

Seriously dude, i respect what you are trying to do here but you need to be a bit less defensive

 writing it off as traditionalism misses the point and is frankly a bit condescending. Know your audience

 I certainly love traditional guitar designs, and choose to ignore them and do my own thing when it suits me. I have spent a lot of time coming up with non-traditional wiring schemes myself. I have spent a lot longer experimenting with non-traditional guitar design.

 The thing you seem to be ignoring is that many of the "traditionalists" have tried to do what you are doing here before, and are simply relating their experiences back to you.

 They are not trying to write off your efforts. You may have got the pickup recipe better than anyone has managed before, i am certainly interested in that.

Pretty much what I was trying to get across in my post, a lot of us did this back in the 70's and 80's, its ok for studio/recording etc but live, forget it I agree that it's very interesting and I'm far from being dismissive but your coding or multi-block connectors are the way to go,. I've fitted GK, Ghost systems Sustainiacs and more onboard guff than I care to remember and even the experienced can be waylaid by something very simple if the schematic or colour coding isn't clear and numpty-proof

WezV

Sporky said:

I've got one of the early ones in a guitar - the later may have a more positive switch.

Otherwise I'd rather* have a 6-way rotary.

*subject to previous comments

i had the first version as soon as it was released.  It was junk.

The newer versions are apparently much better. more reliable, more positive etc.  I have not tried one yet, but wouldn't rule it out based on the experience of the first version

Alegree

WezV said:

Seriously dude, i respect what you are trying to do here but you need to be a bit less defensive

 writing it off as traditionalism misses the point and is frankly a bit condescending. Know your audience

 I certainly love traditional guitar designs, and choose to ignore them and do my own thing when it suits me. I have spent a lot of time coming up with non-traditional wiring schemes myself. I have spent a lot longer experimenting with non-traditional guitar design.

 The thing you seem to be ignoring is that many of the "traditionalists" have tried to do what you are doing here before, and are simply relating their experiences back to you.

 They are not trying to write off your efforts. You may have got the pickup recipe better than anyone has managed before, i am certainly interested in that.

You're misinterpreting my words. I'm not being defensive at all. I'm being realistic that a lot of people will instantly dismiss an idea if it strays away from the norm of Tele/Strat/LP. That's fine by me, I know my work is for a niche audience, and I assure you I know my audience very well.

The simple point that I was making is that this forum's demographic is very different from my target audience's demographic. Please don't read any defensiveness or spite into that, I'm simply stating it as a matter of fact.

tampaxboo

may be worth swapping a favour (a sweet deal etc) with someone who knows how to do a basic pcb layout, so punters can join everything to an easy to understand 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, etc pcb.
make lugs on pot A = 1,2,3 & pot B = 4,5,6 etc.

would make it far more straightforward for little cost.
then load it up to OSH park and get a batch in. https://oshpark.com/

for an example see the telecaster triple deluxe HH board on this page https://oshpark.com/profiles/PhantomicLabs