Boss Es-8 or Gigrig G2?

smudge_lad

Anyone have experience with using/comparing both of these? Specifically with a JVM which I know is a long shot question in itself.

Obviously the G2 is more expensive, I am wondering if the price warrants the difference in features/usability? Well, in all area's really.

The Boss unit seems to have a few more options/menu's, G2 seems simpler?

I'm a bit concerned about trying to remember which presets are saved in which banks on the G2, whereas The Boss has the display panel to help with this.

Both now have switchable pedal/loop order, and I know both are probably a lot more flexible than I will actually need, but I've got myself thinking if I was going to go for an ES-8, am I then going to want to upgrade to the G2 a little down the line anyway, so why not just jump straight in.

What about future-proofing? I know the Boss units can be updated etc using PC>MIDI, but from what I gather the Gigrig folk charged for their recent upgrade. Is that right?

 Any other pro's or con's that anyone can share that may not be glaringly obvious until using the units?

I'd be using these for pedal switching as well as controlling the JVM options via MIDI

Thanks

Keir

hotpickups

For me I'd want a display on it so the Boss wins for me. Also there is way more functionality wit the Boss than the G2 I.e. changing switches to toggle/ momentary etc. Better Midi capabilities than the G2 too but I delve too deep into that but it's there if you need it. Oh and it's cheaper all the above was a contributing factor in buying one . 

Saying all that that I've never used a G2

peteri

Until recently I had a G2 - now gone Fractal/FRFR.

I've never used the Boss, although I did consider it.

Firstly the G2 is truly a pro-level piece of kit, that sounds like a snobbish thing to say - but there are implications to that.

Namely:

1 It's not cheap, if you're doing it you need to factor in the power supply too. Well you don't need to but really...

2. It's pretty large and not light. A very significant factor in me selling it (or rather a perk) was the sheer weight of a G2 with a full pedalboard and all the gubbins in a decent case. It was immense!

3. It's not cheap, you need a decent case

4. It is fundamentally built to do one job - basically to allow you to switch pedals on and off. There is more to it and you can normally work things out - but often this costs money, or a compromise.

So my summary:

Pros:

1. Very, very easy to use

2. Solidly built

3. Sounds great (for the most part (see below))

4. The mixing of stomp box and preset mode is really powerful

Cons:

1. Lots of subtle restrictions - you can't move loops after the stereo ones for example. Remote switching only worked with certain amps/pedals etc.

2. The midi really isn't great, I found it restrictive - for relatively simple things (like reusing the same midi preset), you need to budget for a midi mapper like the Osmosis gizmo

3. Input impedance, this really upset me! I ended up having to use a buffer in front because it presents a 2.2Mohm impedance, compared to most amps at 1M. This made a significant difference to a number of old single coil guitars I had which just didn't sound right with it.

4. Support was both good and bad (you can talk to Dan on the phone if you're lucky and he's good - but outside of that there's a fanboi Facebook group which is heavily moderated - you can't even sell kit on there as it's 'insulting to Dan')

If the above sounds negative, I don't mean it to be - as I said at the beginning it solves one problem (how can I switch pedals/amps) very well - and if I was a touring musician who based his sound around a large pedalboard and had a roadie to carry the bloody thing, I'd be all over it.

The reason I didn't choose the ES-8 was because I didn't like the menu system on the Boss, and also (from memory) you couldn't mix stompbox mode the same way - which I did like on the G2, and does work well.

I suspect the answer is they're both with good and bad bits, if you want primarily switching of pedals and ease of use - that's likely G2 (at the expense of weight and cost). If you want better Midi and lighter/cheaper (and maybe your power needs are already sorted). Boss

smudge_lad

Ok, so maybe to give a bit more context:

 I currently have my board with either a 4 or 6 button JVM footswitch and about 6 or 7 pedals.

This is currently on a pedaltrain 2 w/hardcase, which I would hope would be a good enough case to house the G2?

For most scenarios, I'm happy enough with my current switching capabilities but there's a few times in my usual set where having a "one-stomp" change would be greatly beneficial

I've also got a Mooer Ocean Machine and DD500, which run in my FX Loop. So if I had a MIDI capable switcher I'd be able to replace my JVM footswitch for channel switching, have better/faster access to the presets in the DD500 as well as being able to bring in boost, extra OD etc.

I have never used MIDI at all, so I won't be looking for anything fancy - at most it would be amp channel change with delay preset or two, etc.

Ideally after buying whichever unit, I'd like to try and keep any additional costs to a minimum - I'll obviously need a few more patch cables, MIDI cables and maybe a patch-bay for 4CM (I did read somewhere too that there's not much room between the jacks on the Boss, so I need low profile/thinner jacks??)

If I am running the volume loop out to my amp input, and from FX Send to utilise my amp FX Loop, is this going to cause ground-lift issues with the G2 (Think Boss has a built-in ground lift?)

I do love the stomp-box mode on the G2 though, it's definitely something I'd use, but not essential

Wazmeister

@peteri is spot on here.

I've owned the ES5 and ES8 and now own the G2 (again).

The buffers (pre and post volume thingy too) are exceptional on the G2, and it is silent and very professional.

impmann

Big G2 fan here... tbh, I really didn't notice any negative effect of the input impedence on my sound (mainly use a Tele myself).
Yes its expensive - on the heavy front, I'm not sure it is that heavy... and the Gigrig power supply is a metric shedload lighter than Voodoo Labs stuff (and really quiet).

I didn't go for the Boss because, put simply, menus piss me off. Its almost like you have to learn an operating system before you can go and make music. I had an MS3 briefly that I returned for a refund - I appreciate that its a different kettle of fish but the menu system on it drove me potty. The G2 is WYSIWYG (to a point) and frankly, if a muppet like me can make it work, anyone can.

I'm using a very basic midi control on mine to select certain presets on the Line6 M5 for mods, delays, reverbs etc. I'd agree that there are limitations to it and its not ideal... but it *is* easy to use.

smudge_lad

what are the limitations I'm likely to come across with the MIDI?

@peteri - The midi really isn't great, I found it restrictive - for relatively simple things (like reusing the same midi preset), you need to budget for a midi mapper like the Osmosis gizmo

What do you mean by re-using the same midi preset? As in, if I had a MIDI preset in "bank 1" and wanted to use the same MIDI preset in bank 2, it wont' work?

robinbowes

I used to have a G2 and loved it. I sold when I went the Helix route. I used MIDI to switch H9 presets and found it really easy, although that was fairly simple usage.

The G2 itself was bullet-proof and sounded great (ie. it was invisible)

I've no experience of the Boss switchers.

R. 

Musicman20

The Boss is a fantastic bit of kit and I just really like the Roland/Boss approach to pedals and quality.

I've not tried the G2 but I assume when they first came out it was pretty ground-breaking in terms of its size and cost.

The ES-8 has gone up by £100 since I bought it. £609 ish?

The G2 is on offer here as a bundle: https://shop.thegigrig.com/g2-holiday-bundle/

Personally I just like Roland/Boss so I went with the ES-8 at about £500.

peteri

I was using my G2 with the usual Strymon (timeline, Flint, Mobius). 

Flint was a shame that the G2 couldn’t trigger the favourite function because the strymon needed the inverse of what it was sending out. 

Problem with midi is that each program sends out a fixed programme change message. So if you have a delay sound you want to use in two programs you can’t since the Timeline will get a different message. 

So you have to duplicate presets on the timeline and keep them sync’d manually.

similarly each pedal in stompbox mode can send out a midi message but that’s fixed. So again you have to make your programmes fit the G2. 

Given the grade of the kit this disappointed me to be honest 

as I said nothing against the G2 but it solves a specific problem not all problems! (As I’m sure Dan would admit)

mynamesnotbob

As I am using midi more now, I found the G2 limiting as it seems to only want to do PC messages, and you can't send out a ton of messages at the same time. For instance on the ES-8 I have an assign to change the number of repeats via CC on timeline, or on Bigsky to change reverb level Fia manual EXP pedal converted to MIDI CC signals.

On the other hand stomp box mode on the G2 is far easier, as you have to mess about with assigns to get the same flexibility with the ES-8 - it can do full manual, but not stomp box mode with presets in a single button press, the G2 can.

The switches on the G2 are also better.

ES-8 the reordering is not as good, neither is parallel loops or fancy routing for wet/dry.

In short the ES-8 can do anything, but it's a bit of a faff to set up advanced options, the G2 is has better purity sonically (not that I noticed in reality), and is easier to use, but shows limitations on advanced configurations (which you would expect from a small company without the knowledge base of Roland)

Had both, kept the ES-8.

Should really have spent the time learning how to play the guitar better

JayGee

I’m never going to describe the MIDI functionality on my PXL-Live (which is currently doing preset selection on a TC Deja Vu x4 delay and channel switching on a Blackstar Series One amp) as rudimentary ever again.

I strongly suspect from the sound of it that the MIDI capability on the G2 is really only there as a way of linkling a pair of G2s together with one “slaved” to the other (so that patch selections on one are “mirrored” on the other) rather than as a way of controlling anything else...

smudge_lad

So as I’m a MIDI noob i’m maybe a bit lost on some of the info here - sorry guys, thanks for taking the time to try and explain.

At this stage, I won’t be using MIDI to control any parameters on my DD500 - only switching to different stored presets, as well as amp channel switching/FX loop activation.

Most footswitche changes will be for channel changes and adding in pedals. The most complicated change will be for my lead boost which will all be MIDI - channel/volume change and fx loop on the amp, and delay.

I would need this preset available on any saved bank. Am I right in thinking that having this option available on more than one bank/preset footswitch will be a pain in the G2?

apolgies if I’ve totally misunderstood!

TheBigDipper

smudge_lad said:

So as I’m a MIDI noob i’m maybe a bit lost on some of the info here - sorry guys, thanks for taking the time to try and explain.

At this stage, I won’t be using MIDI to control any parameters on my DD500 - only switching to different presets. 

Well, without owning any of the switchers, I think I can explain the issue to watch out for if/when you get serious about MIDI. 

MIDI devices respond to Program Change commands (PC) and Continuous Control commands (CC). So, an amp might change channels to the clean channel when it gets sent PC01 and to the dirty channel when it gets sent PC02. You may have set up your H9 or Line6 M5 to have a great reverb on preset 6, and when it hears PC06, it selects it. 

Many switchers or MFX (like my GT-100, and maybe the G2) have fixed MIDI PC commands. When you select patch 01, it sends PC01. Select patch 20, it sends PC20. You can't change what it sends.  If your favourite H9 patch is preset 6, you'll only be able to select it from your switcher if you select patch 6 on the switcher. If you want to load that preset from switcher patch 1 or 20, you'll have to copy it on your H9 into those preset locations, too. And do it every time you adjust the parameters. 

Other switchers (and I think the MS-3 does this) allow you to tell the switcher what MIDI command(s) to send on a patch by patch basis. So, if you want to load preset 6 on your H9 from multiple patches on the switcher, you can. Some allow you send multiple PC commands on different channels when loading a patch, so different devices can hear just the messages meant for them and respond accordingly. 

If the documentation for MIDI support is vague, the switcher is probably in the first group. 

JayGee

smudge_lad said:

So as I’m a MIDI noob i’m maybe a bit lost on some of the info here - sorry guys, thanks for taking the time to try and explain.

At this stage, I won’t be using MIDI to control any parameters on my DD500 - only switching to different stored presets, as well as amp channel switching/FX loop activation.

Most footswitche changes will be for channel changes and adding in pedals. The most complicated change will be for my lead boost which will all be MIDI - channel/volume change and fx loop on the amp, and delay.

I would need this preset available on any saved bank. Am I right in thinking that having this option available on more than one bank/preset footswitch will be a pain in the G2?

apolgies if I’ve totally misunderstood!

Yes, and unless the display really is a complete deal breaker It sounds like unless you need more than 4 channels in either loop you can actually get everything you need from the Joyo PXL for a fraction of the price...

smudge_lad

JayGee said:

smudge_lad said:

So as I’m a MIDI noob i’m maybe a bit lost on some of the info here - sorry guys, thanks for taking the time to try and explain.

At this stage, I won’t be using MIDI to control any parameters on my DD500 - only switching to different stored presets, as well as amp channel switching/FX loop activation.

Most footswitche changes will be for channel changes and adding in pedals. The most complicated change will be for my lead boost which will all be MIDI - channel/volume change and fx loop on the amp, and delay.

I would need this preset available on any saved bank. Am I right in thinking that having this option available on more than one bank/preset footswitch will be a pain in the G2?

apolgies if I’ve totally misunderstood!

Yes, and unless the display really is a complete deal breaker It sounds like unless you need more than 4 channels in either loop you can actually get everything you need from the Joyo PXL for a fraction of the price...

There’s no MIDI on the joyo though, I don’t think?

John_P

smudge_lad said:

JayGee said:

smudge_lad said:

So as I’m a MIDI noob i’m maybe a bit lost on some of the info here - sorry guys, thanks for taking the time to try and explain.

At this stage, I won’t be using MIDI to control any parameters on my DD500 - only switching to different stored presets, as well as amp channel switching/FX loop activation.

Most footswitche changes will be for channel changes and adding in pedals. The most complicated change will be for my lead boost which will all be MIDI - channel/volume change and fx loop on the amp, and delay.

I would need this preset available on any saved bank. Am I right in thinking that having this option available on more than one bank/preset footswitch will be a pain in the G2?

apolgies if I’ve totally misunderstood!

Yes, and unless the display really is a complete deal breaker It sounds like unless you need more than 4 channels in either loop you can actually get everything you need from the Joyo PXL for a fraction of the price...

There’s no MIDI on the joyo though, I don’t think?

The joyo and hb versions come with midi or without.     I found it a real pain to program though so personally I’d stick to the non midi joyo which is very good for the money.  

smudge_lad

But I want MIDI for my amp switching and preset changes so I wouldn’t consider the Joyo.