Myths or facts?

pottolom

There are a couple of 'facts' I see frequently on the internet regarding guitars:

• As a guitar ages, the wood continues to dry out, which makes the guitar sound better. This is especially true of acoustics.
• As a guitar is 'played in', it sounds better. Again, especially true of acoustics. Something about vibrations from the strings affecting the wood.

Surely the above are both nothing more than myths?

Wouldn't the wood of the guitar already be dried out fully when it was made and already at equilibrium with moisture in the air that surrounds it, and therefore no further loss of moisture would occur?

And can vibrating strings really change the physical characteristics of the wood?

Thefretboard seems a rational place, so I'm wondering what others on here think. I'm more than willing to learn.

ICBM

I think old guitars do sound different from new ones. Not always better, but they still sound 'old' - obviously acoustics more so than electrics. Whether that's due to the wood 'drying out' or some other cause, I don't know.

Vibration from playing or even from being hung up where it can pick up other vibrations definitely does 'open up' the tone of a guitar. I've heard this so many times, and so dramatically, that I'm absolutely certain it's a real effect.

I'm a physicist by training and naturally sceptical by the way .

richardhomer

Over time, wood’s ability to absorb (and loose) moisture decreases - this is nothing to do with the initial drying process.

My old 335 has only had its truss rod adjusted once since I got it (in 2003), when I did the initial set up. Once a guitar reaches this level of stability, I doubt age plays any further part - but guitars which are played ‘a lot’ always seem better to me.

No doubt @WezV will be able to explain what really happens with wood as it gets older - but no doubt in my mind that it impacts an instrument’s sustain/dynamics.

WezV

“Drying out” is over simplified.

wood is hygroscopic.  It takes on or looses moisture depending on its a environment... but it looses this ability the older it gets.  So the general trend is that it will get dryer as it gets older, but it’s moisture content is constantly fluctuating.

”drying” wood is a process of getting its moisture content stable within its environment... not removing all moisture.


the other change, and it relates to the above, is at the cellular level.  The cells are breaking down very slowly, leaving more cellulose compared to the other stuff.  The woods almost plasticising.  It’s becoming more brittle.  Give it 100 years and acoustic tops (if they have survived) can be very thin, very stiff and even sometimes slightly translucent.   That’s not going to happen on an electric for a very long time.  I will admit I can’t remember all the science, but have observed different qualities when repairing old soundboards to know there is some truth in it.


wood changes as it ages.  That is undeniable and very noticeable in old acoustics.  I am not going to say that is better or worse.   My theory is it will be better on a well played acoustic, less so on a unplayed one.  The vibrations it’s subjected to will affect the ageing process


there is an initial breaking in on all guitars as they get used to the tensions they are subjected too.  There is a break in period on acoustic tops similar to speakers.... these can be relatively quick processes.  This has very little to do with age.

i build with newer wood most of the time, properly “dried” and shown to be stable.  I like it when I find old stock, wood stocks just used to be better so you find more good stuff.  Take mahogany in the 60-70’s.  It was plentiful and used everywhere.  Big trees with big planks of straight grained wood.  Easy to find good stuff.

stimpsonslostson

Don't Yamaha (or someone) vibrate the wood of some of their guitars to "age" them? 

I believe it to be a real thing & not a myth. My Faith has definitely mellowed since I got it & sounds even better than when I bought it. 

WezV

stimpsonslostson said:

Don't Yamaha (or someone) vibrate the wood of some of their guitars to "age" them? 

You can do the same thing by leaving the guitar in front of a speaker.

but that isn’t wood ageing... it’s the guitar “breaking in”

wood ageing is is something that takes decades/centuries

Funkfingers

Two of my guitars are made - in part - from reclaimed railroad bridge lumber and reclaimed workmen's sheds, respectively. The manufacturers claim that the woods are approximately one hundred years old - possibly more. Both of these guitars resonate like ****.

tony99

the predominant component of all "mojo" is pulverised salt n vinegar crisp crumbs

maltingsaudio

No doubt that an acoustic guitar develops its own voice after being played for a period of time, age and abuse can either add or subtract to this voice. The period over which this happens depends on quality of woods in it and construction.

With electrics, it’s not in my opinion the ageing of the wood that affects the tone it’s the quality and construction. Again in my opinion the thing that has the most effect on the tone of a guitar is the set up

4114Effects

My wood is becoming increasingly less stiff as I age. Not sure if that's relevant to the discussion or not ...

DaevidJ

4114Effects said:

My wood is becoming increasingly less stiff as I age. Not sure if that's relevant to the discussion or not ...

Try getting it out of its case every once in a while

RiftAmps

DaevidJ said:

4114Effects said:

My wood is becoming increasingly less stiff as I age. Not sure if that's relevant to the discussion or not ...

Try getting it out of its case every once in a while

Mine only works if I string it up 

thegummy

WezV said:

stimpsonslostson said:

Don't Yamaha (or someone) vibrate the wood of some of their guitars to "age" them? 

You can do the same thing by leaving the guitar in front of a speaker.

but that isn’t wood ageing... it’s the guitar “breaking in”

wood ageing is is something that takes decades/centuries

Some Yamahas have what the call the A.R.E. process which I think is meant to make a new guitar sound like an old one.

As far as I know, it's more to do with some kind of heating or baking process than vibrations and it's meant to sound like a guitar that's years old rather than just broken in.

From what Yamaha themselves say about it, they seem to think that an older guitar does sound better, not sure how much their processing is effective or just a gimmick.

impmann

Can someone physically restrain 3TS...

Ravenous

WezV said:

the other change, and it relates to the above, is at the cellular level.  The cells are breaking down very slowly, leaving more cellulose compared to the other stuff.  The woods almost plasticising.  It’s becoming more brittle.

Interesting you mention that. I've read similar-sounding claims about really ancient instruments (Chinese Guqins, some of which are around 1,000 years old) - so maybe there's something in it...

crunchman

It's easy to see that wood changes over time.  If you have a spruce topped acoustic they go much darker as they get older.  That's not just drying out.

Whether the underlying chemical/structural changes cause a change to tone, or if it does then how big that change is, why we have these discussions.

I've noticed with all my acoustics that I've had from new and owned for a period of time that that the tone definitely does change.  They have all had an initial "breaking in" if you like when the guitar is new, but I've had 2 or 3 guitars that really seemed to open up at around 5 years old.

It's more subtle on electrics, but the effect is still there.  I do think that this is why there is so much fuss about older guitars.

Sassafras

Just playing a few old guitars might convince you that it's not a myth.

ESBlonde

I believe generally guitars improve with playing and age. Remember all the old 'Golden Era' guitars of the 50s early 60s were made from the then lavish stocks of mahogony or whatever. Today the timbers are younger growth and farmed in a way the old timbers weren't so much as just harvester from the wild. But a good guitar is a good guitar that will mature with age and a mediocer guitar will always be that.

OilCityPickups

Ignoring the wood aging aspect, I find that a well played in guitar just 'feels' better, and that alone makes me tend to play better.I wouldn't mind betting a lot of this is purely psychological, but hey what works works.

On my own area of expertise, pickups, there are some definite positive effects of pickups aging, particularly with P90s. Their opposed magnet system means that the magnets mature as a pair, slightly degaussing eachother till there is a dominant magnet (a gauss measurement on a pair of old P90 magnets will scientifically demonstrate this). When factory P90s start out their magnetic pull is much larger because both magnets have about the same charge ... as they age the field softens and the sound improves.
Many small winders deliberately gauss P90 magnets to different levels to give this process a kick start (me included).

siraxeman

Are there any other experiments out there on YouTube doing the tone wood swaps....i remember the kitchen top strat...sounded identical to the squier body....but did anyone do similar but better? Definitely think it shows up more on acoustics than electrics.

OilCityPickups

siraxeman said:

Are there any other experiments out there on YouTube doing the tone wood swaps....i remember the kitchen top strat...sounded identical to the squier body....but did anyone do similar but better? Definitely think it shows up more on acoustics than electrics.

Lets not do the 'tonewood' thing again!!!!!!!!