Myths or facts?

tampaxboo

it's all to do with oxygen fugacity affecting the mineral partitioning in the crystal lattice.
so just make sure you always take your wood from a tree that had its roots set deep into the earth mantle rather than just sitting on the crust...

actually if your guitar has a glossy paint or varnish finish, i'm not sure how it can dry out much. unless it goes crackly or cracky.

re old wood, it's some and some, in my experience.
for example, necks warping used to be a big thing to look out for when i first started playing and was looking at inexpensive 1960s/1970s guitars (1990s).
but used inexpensive guitars now (since 2000) never seem to have warped necks, even the budget makes. maybe better regulated (humidity/triage) stock preparation or technological advances part of that. but warped necks don't happen so much it seems.

@ICBM re vibration, i resist superstition but wonder about that. could the vibration be doing something weird like compressing/compacting the silica in the sap/resin etc?
or it could just be voodoo and good/bad vibes. have you ever owned a guitar that you thought was possessed? did you get it exorcised, or attempt to sell it on hoping no one would notice?

thegummy

@tampaxboo nice post, I just found out it's not possible to give lol and wisdom to the same post

WezV

As always it comes down to a difference in approaches 

as guitar buyers you have it easy.  Just buy the ones you like and don’t worry about all the other stuff.  

but do you want your guitar builders to ignore all the multitude of factors that make the difference between a good guitar and a bad guitar?

tampaxboo

thegummy said:

@tampaxboo nice post, I just found out it's not possible to give lol and wisdom to the same post

https://78.media.tumblr.com/6e0c4771824ff88e7c274e70351f2f35/tumblr_mzni2usivp1rt3w9xo1_500.gif
duality of womankind, sir.

thegummy

WezV said:

as guitar buyers you have it easy.  Just buy the ones you like and don’t worry about all the other stuff.  

Not sure about that to be honest, having a million different guitars to choose from without really having all that much of an idea what really makes them different can be quite menacing!

Sporky

Sassafras said:

Just playing a few old guitars might convince you that it's not a myth.

Or it could be that only the good ones didn't end up in a skip.

ICBM

Sporky said:

Sassafras said:

Just playing a few old guitars might convince you that it's not a myth.

Or it could be that only the good ones didn't end up in a skip.

Nah. You can find plenty of old bad guitars too.

Just look in most “vintage” dealers...

Wolfetone

pottolom said:

There are a couple of 'facts' I see frequently on the internet regarding guitars:

• As a guitar ages, the wood continues to dry out, which makes the guitar sound better. This is especially true of acoustics.
• As a guitar is 'played in', it sounds better. Again, especially true of acoustics. Something about vibrations from the strings affecting the wood.

Surely the above are both nothing more than myths?

Wouldn't the wood of the guitar already be dried out fully when it was made and already at equilibrium with moisture in the air that surrounds it, and therefore no further loss of moisture would occur?

And can vibrating strings really change the physical characteristics of the wood?

Thefretboard seems a rational place, so I'm wondering what others on here think. I'm more than willing to learn.

They don't continue to dry out. they lose moisture until it equalises with the ambient. A guitar will shift around until everything seats in.

stuagu

I did read a report once which was to do with the notion, and they seemed to be convinced that the more a guitar is played ( or indeed any other wooden instrument) after time the fibres in the wood at a microscopic level start to move slightly in straighter lines along the wood grain.  Wether this is true i dont know,  Wether this improved the sound would be matter of opinion . Probably nonsense but i liked the idea. 

WezV

thegummy said:

WezV said:

as guitar buyers you have it easy.  Just buy the ones you like and don’t worry about all the other stuff.  

Not sure about that to be honest, having a million different guitars to choose from without really having all that much of an idea what really makes them different can be quite menacing!

I’m just trying to clarify why I keep harping on about stuff many here want to write off completely.  

As a player you don’t need to understand what makes a guitar good or bad, you can just play them till you find the one you like.  Many get by fine with very little understanding of the differences.  Of course, if you want a better understanding that’s fine too.

WezV

Wolfetone said:

pottolom said:

There are a couple of 'facts' I see frequently on the internet regarding guitars:

• As a guitar ages, the wood continues to dry out, which makes the guitar sound better. This is especially true of acoustics.
• As a guitar is 'played in', it sounds better. Again, especially true of acoustics. Something about vibrations from the strings affecting the wood.

Surely the above are both nothing more than myths?

Wouldn't the wood of the guitar already be dried out fully when it was made and already at equilibrium with moisture in the air that surrounds it, and therefore no further loss of moisture would occur?

And can vibrating strings really change the physical characteristics of the wood?

Thefretboard seems a rational place, so I'm wondering what others on here think. I'm more than willing to learn.

They don't continue to dry out. they lose moisture until it equalises with the ambient. A guitar will shift around until everything seats in.

Partially correct.  There is a slow trend towards drier as the wood looses its hygroscopic abilities.... but it is a very slow process after the initial equalisation process

TheBigDipper

WezV said:

thegummy said:

WezV said:

as guitar buyers you have it easy.  Just buy the ones you like and don’t worry about all the other stuff.  

Not sure about that to be honest, having a million different guitars to choose from without really having all that much of an idea what really makes them different can be quite menacing!

I’m just trying to clarify why I keep harping on about stuff many here want to write off completely.  

As a player you don’t need to understand what makes a guitar good or bad, you can just play them till you find the one you like.  Many get by fine with very little understanding of the differences.  Of course, if you want a better understanding that’s fine too.

I'm with @WezV on this. With all the information we have access to - some of it totally right and some of it just plain wrong (although well-meaning) - it's easy to be struck by analysis paralysis and never buy a guitar we like and just enjoy playing the thing. Instead we spend all our time trying to find "the best for the money and our needs" and never do.

However, I agree that (in my anecdotal experience) that acoustic guitars improve with age and by being played. Playing a guitar that is old but has been in a case for a couple of years really does open out the sound after a few weeks of playing. Electrics also feel like they improve, but I suspect that's just because they get "worn in" and feel better to me as a result. 

clarkefan

I've always thought it was the other way around, they start to sound better after a while playing them because *your* hands start adjusting to *them*.

The_Ethical

OK,

I’ll,admit to being in my sixties and my experience is that some guitars just feel and sound right in my hands. It’s not dependent on age or perceived value or brand or model. It just happens.

Do I know what makes one particular guitar meet those criteria? No, unfortunately, or else I would be a billionaire. We just have to accept what our hands and ears tell us when we pick up an instrument and not be swayed by abstract concepts. If it feels and sounds good, then it is good and we should run, not walk, to the nearest checkout and pay the man!

Seriously, ignore the reviews, ignore the bling factor, ignore your mate’s disparaging remarks. Choose the instrument that brings out your inner musicality and you’ll never regret your purchase.

cork sniffing is all well and good but it won’t get you gigs or a recording contract (if that’s your goal or desire). If all you want is to to slavishly follow the crowd then by all mean buy that gleaming PRS or Gibson but don’t complain when you can’t even get a simple tune from it!

OK, rant over. Take it or leave it, that’s my advice on guitar buying. I couldn’t care less how other guitarists perceive the value or attractiveness of my guitars and care even less about how they are received in 50 years as I won’t be around to take umbrage if some twit thinks it has the wrong colour pickguard.

Keep on playing

carlos

clarkefan said:

I've always thought it was the other way around, they start to sound better after a while playing them because *your* hands start adjusting to *them*.

This ^
Also, as you become a better player, your first guitar will sound better and better as YOU age.

Jez6345789

I think with a lot of modern finishes nothing is going to get in or out as most of the sealers and top coats will seal the wood for good.

If like me you build your first guitar as a slab Les Paul back in the 90's out of a piece of very very old Honduras mahogany that you think will be very dry and stable it sat in the house for 2 years before it got made but I did not seal the pickup cavities you find even after all the time drying out this wood was imported to the UK in the early 1950's. That guitar was stripped down recently with the thoughts of redoing it as it was pretty bodged first build attempt. Only to find that the single piece body had warped out on both sides of the pickup routs in a 3mm arc and the slab body was no longer flat.

I am sure some old guitars are simply drier and resins and sugars have slowly solidified over time but certainly not all. 

I think drying out is also more prevalent on acoustics. 

Having a good few guitars 10/15 at the last count that get played in a mood-based random order I invested in one of those vibrating Tonerite gadgets a couple of years ago with the view some of the things that ended up on low rotation might benefit. 

I used it on the Cort Adirondak ooo and it made a huge difference in getting the thing to open up in fact that gets a dose quite often as the top takes some getting going. You can clearly hear the difference after you have used it. 

The 345 again has had a large initial dose as much as it's a lovely thing it cumbersome to play sitting in the lounge chair and again that is where most practice gets done unless I take it up to the back room for recording. It certainly seemed to make a difference to the 345 but not as pronounced as to the acoustic.

ICBM

I'm currently working on a well-played and worn 1965 Fender Jaguar. I can guarantee - and I'm sure anyone who plays it would agree - that it does not feel or sound like any modern guitar. Whether that makes it better or not is open to question... I think it does sound fantastic and in some ways 'better' (richer and warmer), but it's not as easy to get a wide range of sounds out of as a modern reissue. I would not choose it over a new US one if I wanted a versatile gigging guitar.

midlifecrisis

ive found the best way to make any of my guitars sound better is to give them to someone else to play, works everytime

57Deluxe

what about players? Do they sound different with age?

ICBM

57Deluxe said:

what about players? Do they sound different with age?

They certainly have a tendency to produce ever-duller blues-rock sounds.