When did you decide you didnt want to be Yngwie Malmsteen ?

bingefeller

flying_pie said:

Neill said:

Some years ago (I think it was) Guitar magazine put the speed gun on ten guitarists who folk had suggested were the fastest players.  It was a bit tongue in cheek but they devised a way of measuring notes per second.  IIRC Malmsteen didn't even make the top five.

I recall that when the charity song Stars was recorded there was a shred off between the guitarists to find the fastest alternate picker. It wasn't Malmsteen or Lynch. Apparently it was Neal Schon 

Stars rocks! 

Yngwie is great, but I guess I decided that I didn't want to be him when I was about 21 / 22.  All the practicing and getting nowhere got boring. 

Yngwie's picking technique is a thing of beauty, it's so effortless, precise and clean.  I think from his Steeler days up to his Eclipse album was his best period.  The Alcatrazz stuff has some of his best playing.  His amp isn't overly gained up, just loud and pushed with his DOD. 

If you like Yngwie, then check out Joe Stump.  His playing is much more controlled than Yngwie's and he still has the same kind of tone and effortless technique. 

MatthewShreddery

I’m still waiting. YJM rocks! 

Neill

flying_pie said:

Neill said:

Some years ago (I think it was) Guitar magazine put the speed gun on ten guitarists who folk had suggested were the fastest players.  It was a bit tongue in cheek but they devised a way of measuring notes per second.  IIRC Malmsteen didn't even make the top five.

I recall that when the charity song Stars was recorded there was a shred off between the guitarists to find the fastest alternate picker. It wasn't Malmsteen or Lynch. Apparently it was Neal Schon 

It's like that line about the fastest gun in the West - there's always someone faster. 

Telejester

Neill said:

flying_pie said:

Neill said:

Some years ago (I think it was) Guitar magazine put the speed gun on ten guitarists who folk had suggested were the fastest players.  It was a bit tongue in cheek but they devised a way of measuring notes per second.  IIRC Malmsteen didn't even make the top five.

I recall that when the charity song Stars was recorded there was a shred off between the guitarists to find the fastest alternate picker. It wasn't Malmsteen or Lynch. Apparently it was Neal Schon 

It's like that line about the fastest gun in the West - there's always someone faster. 

just sounds like neal schon won  a wholesomely pointless competition

Sassafras

  

Telejester

Sassafras said:

  

Sounds like virgin media outside drilling the pavement

Winny_Pooh

Some thoughts: its become clear recently that Guthrie Govan is probably the all round best technical guitarist there is, has good taste and can out shred the best of them in multiple categories.

Now that we know who's the best, we can just listen to who we enjoy. And there is very little that is enjoyable about Yngwie's music IMO, contrasted to Satriani who writes infinitely better music and melodies.

Personally speaking I far prefer Holdsworth, Di Meola or Eric Johnson in the technicians category.

Telejester

https://youtu.be/pkZ3Ba7Hk7Q

Here is francesco fareri, do you think this sounds musical or like the din from an amusement arcade ?

jeztone2

I think Yngwie Malmsteen is an amazing guitarist. He has a fiery personality which comes through in his playing. Very few people have an instantly recognisable style, he does. I saw him live once and his dynamics and phrasing were incredible close up. He found his own voice on the instrument. Which is quite an achievement. 

I don’t really play fast because I can’t. But I’m not so insecure as to criticise the people who can. All the fast playing isn’t soulful crowd need a Django Rheinhardt album in their lives. It’s all about context. Like all the hipsters that buy Rodrigo & Gabriella albums wouldn’t go near things like Passion Grace & Fire because the Guardian don’t like John McLaughlan. 

People can knock it all they want. But I’d sooner have more people who play with a bit of fire in their bellies than all these dreadful careerist indie musicians. Yes play to serve the song by all means, but sometimes that requires melody, dynamics and originality of thought. Something really lacking at the moment. 

BigLicks67

Here's John McClaughlin getting 4 out of 5 stars in the Guardian, I wish people would refrain from making lazy assumptions about The Guardian or Telegraph or whatever to make an 'informed' point.

Comparing Yngwie to JM or Django is an insult to 2 fine jazz guitarists.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/dec/17/john-mclaughlin-and-the-4th-dimension-black-light-review

Vibetronic

jeztone2 said:

I think Yngwie Malmsteen is an amazing guitarist. He has a fiery personality which comes through in his playing. Very few people have an instantly recognisable style, he does. I saw him live once and his dynamics and phrasing were incredible close up. He found his own voice on the instrument. Which is quite an achievement. 

I don’t really play fast because I can’t. But I’m not so insecure as to criticise the people who can. All the fast playing isn’t soulful crowd need a Django Rheinhardt album in their lives. It’s all about context. Like all the hipsters that buy Rodrigo & Gabriella albums wouldn’t go near things like Passion Grace & Fire because the Guardian don’t like John McLaughlan. 

People can knock it all they want. But I’d sooner have more people who play with a bit of fire in their bellies than all these dreadful careerist indie musicians. Yes play to serve the song by all means, but sometimes that requires melody, dynamics and originality of thought. Something really lacking at the moment. 

that's a really good comment. 

I doubt Yngwie is too bothered about what people think by now, and he's made a pretty decent career out of it (and Francesco Fareri and Rusty Cooley aren't doing too badly either). I don't know any other group of musicians quite so eager to put each other down as guitarists. 

LuttiS

Vibetronic said:

 I don't know any other group of musicians quite so eager to put each other down as guitarists. 

Guitarist syndrome through isn't it..  Go and watch a gig, especially a smaller unknown band - it doesn't matter how good they are or how much you are enjoying it. In your mind you're always thinking that you should be up there, you could be doing a better job. 

As you get older i'm told the voice goes to the back of your mind and gets a little quieter..

Neill

LuttiS said:

Vibetronic said:

 I don't know any other group of musicians quite so eager to put each other down as guitarists. 

Guitarist syndrome through isn't it..  Go and watch a gig, especially a smaller unknown band - it doesn't matter how good they are or how much you are enjoying it. In your mind you're always thinking that you should be up there, you could be doing a better job. 

As you get older i'm told the voice goes to the back of your mind and gets a little quieter..

Oh I don't know about that.  I'm in my 60's and I still can't watch bands without thinking that's not how I would play it...  I think it might even get worse as you get older   There's a saying -  the older I get, the better I was...

newi123

Vibetronic said:

jeztone2 said:

I think Yngwie Malmsteen is an amazing guitarist. He has a fiery personality which comes through in his playing. Very few people have an instantly recognisable style, he does. I saw him live once and his dynamics and phrasing were incredible close up. He found his own voice on the instrument. Which is quite an achievement. 

I don’t really play fast because I can’t. But I’m not so insecure as to criticise the people who can. All the fast playing isn’t soulful crowd need a Django Rheinhardt album in their lives. It’s all about context. Like all the hipsters that buy Rodrigo & Gabriella albums wouldn’t go near things like Passion Grace & Fire because the Guardian don’t like John McLaughlan. 

People can knock it all they want. But I’d sooner have more people who play with a bit of fire in their bellies than all these dreadful careerist indie musicians. Yes play to serve the song by all means, but sometimes that requires melody, dynamics and originality of thought. Something really lacking at the moment. 

that's a really good comment. 

I doubt Yngwie is too bothered about what people think by now, and he's made a pretty decent career out of it (and Francesco Fareri and Rusty Cooley aren't doing too badly either). I don't know any other group of musicians quite so eager to put each other down as guitarists. 

As the old joke goes `how many guitarists does it take to change a light bulb? 10 - one to do it an nine to stand around saying that they could do it better.......`

I doubt Yngwie is in the least bit bothered - he has a big house in Florida, an in house studio, a vast collection of vintage guitars and marshalls, a collection of Ferraris, he was the second guitarist after Clapton to get a signature fender guitar, he has a signature Marshall amp and he still makes a very good living creating the music he loves - that some of us don`t appreciate or think is `too fast or tasteless` - who wouldn`t want all that from a career making their own music???????

Maybe the better question is when did Mr Malmsteen decide he didn`t want to be a bedroom player and have to get a real job..........?

Matt_McG

I still kind of love the gonzo madness of Yngwie at his best. There's something joyous and not po-faced about it, and he really did invent his own sound and push forward the range of things that can be done on guitar. Someone above commented that he doesn't have the songs, and that's definitely right, a lot of them are hilariously bad.

I'm basically a jazz and soul/RnB listener (and wannabe player) and I don't listen to much heavy rock anymore, but sometimes, a couple of Yngwie tunes will still put a big grin on the face.

When I discovered the Troy Grady stuff a year or so back it was good fun trying to learn some Yngwie licks as part of speed practice.

jeztone2

BigLicks67 said:

Here's John McClaughlin getting 4 out of 5 stars in the Guardian, I wish people would refrain from making lazy assumptions about The Guardian or Telegraph or whatever to make an 'informed' point.

Comparing Yngwie to JM or Django is an insult to 2 fine jazz guitarists.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/dec/17/john-mclaughlin-and-the-4th-dimension-black-light-review

So please show me the Guardians endless positive coverage of jazz-rock fusion? I'm afraid one review doesn't define the culture of the 'intelligentsia' which generally derided musicianship and embraced punk. It might be changing now, but the shadow of punk and the power of the journalist loom large over British guitar music. Its how we got landfill indie in the first place, mediocre players making music that was so understated it all sounded the same.

BigLicks67

jeztone2 said:

BigLicks67 said:

Here's John McClaughlin getting 4 out of 5 stars in the Guardian, I wish people would refrain from making lazy assumptions about The Guardian or Telegraph or whatever to make an 'informed' point.

Comparing Yngwie to JM or Django is an insult to 2 fine jazz guitarists.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/dec/17/john-mclaughlin-and-the-4th-dimension-black-light-review

So please show me the Guardians endless positive coverage of jazz-rock fusion? I'm afraid one review doesn't define the culture of the 'intelligentsia' which generally derided musicianship and embraced punk. It might be changing now, but the shadow of punk and the power of the journalist loom large over British guitar music. Its how we got landfill indie in the first place, mediocre players making music that was so understated it all sounded the same.

Neither does making sweeping generalisations, but here's another positive review for you then.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/jul/13/john-mcaughlin-ronnie-scotts-review

Why you would expect any quality newspaper to provide endless positive reviews, I don't know, what are you looking for the journalistic equivalent of the Stepford Wives? Also, I don't know why you are anti-indie music when Malmsteen releases his latest records on his own label.

Teetonetal

jeztone2 said:

I think Yngwie Malmsteen is an amazing guitarist. He has a fiery personality which comes through in his playing. Very few people have an instantly recognisable style, he does. I saw him live once and his dynamics and phrasing were incredible close up. He found his own voice on the instrument. Which is quite an achievement. 

I don’t really play fast because I can’t. But I’m not so insecure as to criticise the people who can. All the fast playing isn’t soulful crowd need a Django Rheinhardt album in their lives. It’s all about context. Like all the hipsters that buy Rodrigo & Gabriella albums wouldn’t go near things like Passion Grace & Fire because the Guardian don’t like John McLaughlan. 

People can knock it all they want. But I’d sooner have more people who play with a bit of fire in their bellies than all these dreadful careerist indie musicians. Yes play to serve the song by all means, but sometimes that requires melody, dynamics and originality of thought. Something really lacking at the moment. 

Hmm

I don't like the Guardian
I do like Rodrigo y Gabriella
I did like Malmsteen for a bit
I can't stand John McLaughlan
I'm quite partial to Django.

I would like to think that people stop ignoring music critics etc as they get older. I know I haven't read a music review since I last bought a copy of Kerrang back in the 90's. In this day and age the critic is irrelevant, you have almost instant access to music as soon as it's in production. 

As for Malmsteen, I'd agree. He has a sound. But that's not the be all and end all. I think Guthrie Govan is a good example of an extraordinary talent who can serve the song - when required. His work on the Steven Wilson albums is stunning, but you wouldn't know it was him from listening. However, listen to the Aristocats and you hear him play how he wants to, which I don't like at all. I know which side of his playing I prefer, but honestly who cares which is better? I'm not sure it's even possible to answer.

It's some thing I hate about the music and musicians are treated, so much snobbery! It's all valid. There really is no good or bad, to a point. There is technical proficiency, there is appeal, but music boils down to a connection between 2 people, the performer (ok could be a group) and the listener.. how that relationship is to another listener is completely irrelevant.

It only matters that people you like have enough appeal, to keep producing and playing, so that you get to keep hearing them.

Telejester

Teetonetal said:

jeztone2 said:

I think Yngwie Malmsteen is an amazing guitarist. He has a fiery personality which comes through in his playing. Very few people have an instantly recognisable style, he does. I saw him live once and his dynamics and phrasing were incredible close up. He found his own voice on the instrument. Which is quite an achievement. 

I don’t really play fast because I can’t. But I’m not so insecure as to criticise the people who can. All the fast playing isn’t soulful crowd need a Django Rheinhardt album in their lives. It’s all about context. Like all the hipsters that buy Rodrigo & Gabriella albums wouldn’t go near things like Passion Grace & Fire because the Guardian don’t like John McLaughlan. 

People can knock it all they want. But I’d sooner have more people who play with a bit of fire in their bellies than all these dreadful careerist indie musicians. Yes play to serve the song by all means, but sometimes that requires melody, dynamics and originality of thought. Something really lacking at the moment. 

Hmm

I don't like the Guardian
I do like Rodrigo y Gabriella
I did like Malmsteen for a bit
I can't stand John McLaughlan
I'm quite partial to Django.

I would like to think that people stop ignoring music critics etc as they get older. I know I haven't read a music review since I last bought a copy of Kerrang back in the 90's. In this day and age the critic is irrelevant, you have almost instant access to music as soon as it's in production. 

As for Malmsteen, I'd agree. He has a sound. But that's not the be all and end all. I think Guthrie Govan is a good example of an extraordinary talent who can serve the song - when required. His work on the Steven Wilson albums is stunning, but you wouldn't know it was him from listening. However, listen to the Aristocats and you hear him play how he wants to, which I don't like at all. I know which side of his playing I prefer, but honestly who cares which is better? I'm not sure it's even possible to answer.

It's some thing I hate about the music and musicians are treated, so much snobbery! It's all valid. There really is no good or bad, to a point. There is technical proficiency, there is appeal, but music boils down to a connection between 2 people, the performer (ok could be a group) and the listener.. how that relationship is to another listener is completely irrelevant.

It only matters that people you like have enough appeal, to keep producing and playing, so that you get to keep hearing them.

you mention guthrie govan, i have his erotic cakes cd and there are moments on it that sound like a well schooled player and songwriter, unfortunately there are bits where he jumps into play like its 1984 again mode. those bits frustrate me as they add nowt to the song and sound like sonebody practicing scales with a metronome, its a decent album apart from those bits.

p90fool

Well having never heard him I scuttled off for a quick listen and...

Well suffice to say it's not really my cup of tea, but it IS rock'n'roll. Loads of strutting, arrogant showmanship and the chops to back it up, it's hilarious and kind of cool in equal measures.  

Players like Guthrie Goven leave me absolutely cold I'm afraid, just utterly devoid of fire and panache. 

It's the fundamental difference between a star and a sideman I guess, similar talent, one is an asshole and one is a nice guy, but I know which is more entertaining even if I'd rather have my toenails pulled out than listen to a whole record by either of them.