How good is a grade 8 guitar player?

fastonebaz

I've played guitar for almost 30 years now, reasonable player.  But, I've never taken any lessons or done any theory. Sometimes I hear people say, ooooh such and such is a grade 8 player.  I have no frame of reference for what that means or how good they are.  Any guitar teachers out there know what might be typical songs that a grade 8 student would be expected to play in order to pass great 8?

Are we talking, some of the Guns n Roses stuff, or some of the Yngwie stuff?

Bridgehouse

One better than a grade 7

matt.drink73

Depends entirely on the board. Trinity rock and pop supposed to be the easiest one and their setlist consists of Sweet Child o'mine and crazy train etc. ABRSM is crazy hard classical guitar and is proper virtuoso stuff. All of them expect you to be able to improvise and know a load of scales and modes etc but really by memorizing enough scales and learning the longs inside out an average guitar player could quite happily get grade 8

DulcetJones

Grade 8 from which institution?  I've got a grade 5 in classical guitar from the Royal Conservatory of Music but there's electric guitar based schools out there that I have no idea about.  I would think a grade 8 player from most schools would be pretty good though.  In my case I had to play 2 songs from memory from a grade 5 repertoire book and a read two songs chosen by the adjudicator from the grade 4 repertoire book, plus play several scales all over the neck chosen at random by the adjudicator.  There were questions about theory too.   

p90fool

Classical is a different matter, but I've had two grade 8 players apply for jobs in my band and they were both utterly unemployable, absolutely fucking clueless. 

I don't know who the examiners are but it seems like you only have to be able to limp through a three chord song out of time, with no energy or drive whatsoever. 

jeztone2

I can't stand the academicalisation (if that's a word) of Rock Music, I thought about doing the grades a while ago, but as someone else mentioned when you meet these certificate bearers, there usually pretty underwhelming. My wife has a degree from the Royal College of Music. She plays piano and flute, did her grades, taught music privately & in schools. She rates me as a guitar player. In fact she envies my instinctive approach.

Therin in lies the problem. To my mind, no one has really nailed a way for a self taught player to get into theory. I sort of think your brain gets it, or it doesn't. Mine doesn't, it's probably stopped me from getting some gigs. But are they gigs I would have wanted?

thebreeze

To echo the above - I think there's often a big difference between structured assessment and rock n roll.  My son got to Grade 5 classical and although what he did for that sounded good, imho he couldn't really play the guitar and didn't really understand the instrument (nor did it inspire him to).  

The guitar is different to other instruments in that it retains a freedom for players to use it "as they see fit" rather than have that claim upon it to be played "conventionally" in the way that other instruments seem to have. 

The best way to put it is just to say - Lightin' Hopkins.

DulcetJones

thebreeze said:

To echo the above - I think there's often a big difference between structured assessment and rock n roll.  My son got to Grade 5 classical and although what he did for that sounded good, imho he couldn't really play the guitar and didn't really understand the instrument (nor did it inspire him to).  

The guitar is different to other instruments in that it retains a freedom for players to use it "as they see fit" rather than have that claim upon it to be played "conventionally" in the way that other instruments seem to have. 

The best way to put it is just to say - Lightin' Hopkins.

    I've seen this before in some of my earlier students.  It was different for me because I learned to play mostly by ear and mostly rock first.  After several years of slogging out cover tunes in bars I got interested in theory and worked my way through the books myself to get to a grade 5 level.  Once I got that I got back into performing again but with more original music.  I did get some pretty cool gigs because I could sight read though, theater pit and one symphony orchestra gig where they needed classical guitar for two songs a night  I have come across several people that have gone right to grade 10 with piano and then never played again.

thebreeze

DulcetJones said:

thebreeze said:

To echo the above - I think there's often a big difference between structured assessment and rock n roll.  My son got to Grade 5 classical and although what he did for that sounded good, imho he couldn't really play the guitar and didn't really understand the instrument (nor did it inspire him to).  

The guitar is different to other instruments in that it retains a freedom for players to use it "as they see fit" rather than have that claim upon it to be played "conventionally" in the way that other instruments seem to have. 

The best way to put it is just to say - Lightin' Hopkins.

    I've seen this before in some of my earlier students.  It was different for me because I learned to play mostly by ear and mostly rock first.  After several years of slogging out cover tunes in bars I got interested in theory and worked my way through the books myself to get to a grade 5 level.  Once I got that I got back into performing again but with more original music.  I did get some pretty cool gigs because I could sight read though, theater pit and one symphony orchestra gig where they needed classical guitar for two songs a night  I have come across several people that have gone right to grade 10 with piano and then never played again.

That's really interesting, but more importantly inspiring!  I don't underestimate what he's done - it's a great achievement and I hope will be useful but I do think that the "grading system" can blunt expression and (paradoxically) understanding.

stuagu

My mrs is a grade 8'classical guitar player and shes pretty damn good but from a band situation? in my experience these technically trained and graded musicians ( guitarists , drumers singers)  dont tend to be suited to playing with anyone else. 

 

TheBigDipper

I'm not a teacher, but the thread is morphing slightly, so...

If you're a classical player, then the repertoire is fairly fixed and the skill set is well defined. The grading system - whatever board you got them with - will be fairly predictable if you're a performer looking to get a job with an orchestra and needing to prove some level of 'definable' achievement. It's a bit of a sausage machine, IMHO, and I started as a classical guitarist and have/had those grades as a kid. 

In other areas, such as rock music, I'm unsure it means much. When I swapped from classical to electric aged 17 I pretty much had to relearn the instrument and you can still see my heritage if you were to look at my left hand or my right hand if I'm fingerpicking. 

The other thing about tests of any sort is they only tell you what a person was able to achieve on a specific day. It doesn't mean they can still do it or that they even want to. 

shefguitar

Also the result is a factor. There’s a huge difference between a player who scrapes a pass and another one who gets a distinction.

thermionic

I have two nieces who’ve had music lessons on various instruments, but mainly piano. The eldest is good at practicing scales, learning pieces and putting the hours in, much like my sister was when we were kids. Give her a score and she can play it well after some time. The youngest couldn’t be bothered to practice and gave up lessons... but she’ll sit at a piano (or other instrument) and compose stuff. Some of it is quite complex with descending basslines and repeating loop type things. I have a short piece on my iPad which she knocked out in five minutes in GarageBand. The eldest is the most accomplished, but I much prefer the attitude of the youngest!

Sporky

stuagu said:

 in my experience these technically trained and graded musicians ( guitarists , drumers singers)  dont tend to be suited to playing with anyone else. 

Never seen an orchestra?

stratman3142

My youngest daughter went to college to study rock and pop music, with guitar as her instrument. Then she dropped out of college, but that's another story

The college recommended the Rock School books and, as I'm basically self taught, I got them to help her. Somewhat optimistically I purchased the whole series up to grade 8. I think I got her started on the grade 3 or 4 books, before she dropped out.

As an exercise purely for myself, I remember learning the first grade 8 piece "Meet Darth Ear" which I found very challenging, but I wouldn't call myself a metal player. The other pieces pieces look much more doable. I did have a plan of working through the whole book when I retired, but other things have taken my interest now.

I'm looking at the grade 8 book now. It looks doable but certainly not easy and a bit of a challenge.

joeyowen

It's all just a Memory test.  I did my grade 8 with London College Of Music when I was about 17.  There was literally nothing harder than 5 and 6 (skipped 7) aside from remembering more.

Remember more Chords, arpeggios, scales.... you'll be fine.  9/10 the chords sounded shite.  Take a random chord (maj/min) pick some random numbers 4,5,13.  Decide to sharpen or flatten.  Sounded shit.  

The sight reading wasn't bad, again mostly chords (with stupid changes).  The specialist section I did tapping, chords and runs on the left hand, melody on the right.  

I'm proud of doing it and achieving it.  I never really mention it.  Just remember more than lower grades.  

Ps, of all the things I did remember, I drew a total blank on 6/8 time signature.  So I played the sight reading in 4/4.  Got penalised, but got all the notes/chords right.

Neill

Of course Nigel Tufnell goes up to grade 9.

JezWynd

jeztone2 said:

I can't stand the academicalisation (if that's a word) of Rock Music...

Completely agree. It's death to the spirit of the medium once it is over structured in that way. You'll still get the occasional talent who can rise above the exam led mediocrity but a Beatles, Stones, Sex Pistols? I doubt it. The spirit that informed that music is way outside of any officially sanctioned exam process. It's the same mentality that's led to an overabsorbtion with gear but that's another story...

musteatbrain

You don’t need to be technically adapt for the RGT grade 8, but you do need a good ear. I’d think most people who have played for 3 or 4 years would have the dexterity required. The theory etc. I found to be full and time consuming but probably worth it

VimFuego

Sporky said:

stuagu said:

 in my experience these technically trained and graded musicians ( guitarists , drumers singers)  dont tend to be suited to playing with anyone else. 

Never seen an orchestra?

this, so much this. 
I'm in discussions with my new music tutor about grades, I'm not opposed to the idea but I'm not really sure if they'll be of much benefit to me (though clearly the sillybus will be) but she is quite keen for me to do some (I suspect they look good on her teaching CV if she gets people through grades) however, there are a couple of serious orchestras round here that you need grades to play in (you can audition without them though), so the assumption is that all the players in those orchestras have grades and so on.

Bucket

Just to mention - I've heard some supposedly grade 8-standard electric guitarists whose bends and vibrato were so hopeless that they just sounded like beginners who had learned how to shred.