Strats. Are they a bit characterless?

stickyfiddle

Freebird said:

stickyfiddle said:

I love a good strat. Currently aching for a something properly old-school - maple board, sunburst finish, no tricks. 

There's plenty of dull ones about, but they're a classic for good reason. 

What happened to the synths, or was that just a fad? 

Nah, that's @mellowsun. I'm pining for a drum kit at the moment, but I much prefer synths controlled by someone other than me!

ICBM

If we’re sticking to the original Strat with three single coils... yes and no.

In the single-pickup positions they are very pure and clear-sounding and don’t impose their own sound on the player. The tone itself has very little natural character, but that means you hear the player instead.

In the two-pickup positions they’re *extremely* characterful - there’s no other type of guitar which will do that sound - but it’s also one which is very responsive to the player in terms of dynamics and note choice, because the characteristic notch-filtering is dependent on the exact difference between the signal at the two pickups.

The same is true to a degree on any guitar when there are two pickups on at the same time, but the unique spacing of the Strat pickups and the fact that they’re identical makes it much more noticeable.

[/nerd mode]

sweepy

It also helps that the neck pickup is where the 24th fret would be and the middle, the 36th, I’d like to think it was design, but more likely luck

Freebird

stickyfiddle said:

Freebird said:

stickyfiddle said:

I love a good strat. Currently aching for a something properly old-school - maple board, sunburst finish, no tricks. 

There's plenty of dull ones about, but they're a classic for good reason. 

What happened to the synths, or was that just a fad? 

Nah, that's @mellowsun. I'm pining for a drum kit at the moment, but I much prefer synths controlled by someone other than me!

Yes, you're right, I was just reading your drum thread along with the synth thread at the same time 

ICBM

sweepy said:

It also helps that the neck pickup is where the 24th fret would be and the middle, the 36th, I’d like to think it was design, but more likely luck

I would say design. Having just done some work on a parts Telecaster and wanted to get things ‘right’ in the way that Fender did, I discovered a couple of things where it seems that Leo liked to exactly ‘halve’ distances.

(The early-50s string tree position is perpendicular to the halfway point between the G and D machineheads - even though it looks closer to the G, that’s because of the angle - and the front strap button is halfway between the side of the neck and the top of the upper bout.)

I think a very great deal of detail design went into the Strat, which is why it’s still so ‘right’ today. Volume knob position excepted! But that was a deliberate design decision too, he specifically said so.

thermionic

It’s odd then that Leo didn’t think of the possibility of having two pickups on, something which was available on the Telecaster. And also that he resisted for so long when the Jaguar, Jazzmaster, Jazz Bass etc had it - and players were bodging it on the Strat.

BigLicks67

I'd say the strat is anything but characterless and is probably the best electric guitar design ever. However, the guitar has been played to death by numerous greats and it's probably achieved a critical mass in what can be achieved sonically with it now. So, in that regard it is a bit tired sounding and is the province of nostalgic boring old farts like myself.

stickyfiddle

thermionic said:

It’s odd then that Leo didn’t think of the possibility of having two pickups on, something which was available on the Telecaster. And also that he resisted for so long when the Jaguar, Jazzmaster, Jazz Bass etc had it - and players were bodging it on the Strat.

I would assume that was based on player feedback, and because it had 3 pickups, not 2. I imagine the entire point of the 3rd pickup was that the guys Leo asked thought that sounded better than a combination of neck + bridge

ICBM

Leo also said that he didn’t like changing things once they’d been finalised - although he had no such scruples about his amp circuits!

I do find it slightly odd about the Strat though, because after 1957 he never designed another guitar without hum cancellation using RWRP pickups. (Discounting the one-pickup Bronco, which I think was his design even though it’s a CBS model - he was still a consultant then.)

I actually suspect he had lost interest in the Strat and simply moved on - he certainly didn’t regard it as the design pinnacle most of us do today.

stickyfiddle

ICBM said:

 
I actually suspect he had lost interest in the Strat and simply moved on - he certainly didn’t regard it as the design pinnacle most of us do today.

Probably true, since he was a serial tinkerer, and saw guitar design as an engineering & manufacturing question as much as a musical one. I do find it fascinating that he never learned to play but spent his life playing with guitars. 

thermionic

There’s a good story in the Forrest White book about Leo testing a guitar or amp for hours on his workbench. Someone eventually went in there and tuned the guitar to an open chord!

Fuengi

slacker said:

Fuengi said:

How do you get the best out of your Strat?

traded it for a rickenbacker.



I'm actually looking for a fender after 10 years. I've tried a lot of starts teles and jazzmaster and nothing's really doing it.in the end tastes change.

In your position I'd keep the strat and keep playing the tele.

Yep. Worst scenario is I put it in a case under the spare bed for a couple of years if I buy something else. I paid £220 for my MiM Strat about 4 years ago so it's not like it's tying up any buying funds. 

Andyjr1515

For what it's worth, my view is that a 'standard' configuration Teles, Strats and Les Pauls all have their own distinctly different sounds and feels.

I'm not sure you can possibly say that one is better than the other, just that they are different to each other.  Each can do things that the other two can't and all can do some things with equal aplomb.

  So it really is more about what the player wants and how the player relates to each of the designs...and sometimes that changes...and changes back - and so my personal philosophy is to never sell the ones I'm not presently using simply because I'm not presently using them.  Which is why I've got too many guitars

camf

octatonic said:

I wasn't being snarky- it just happens that lower output Strat pickups sometimes need a bit of beefing up.
Tele pickups are inherently sharper sounding, humbuckers have more output.

I find a nice clean boost/Klon style pedal gives some beef.
Beyond that it is down to the player and the amp.

Such as:

Hey @octatonic, what's the link for this video?

Fuengi

Here's a photo for reference. I call it Steve (after Steve Davis) because of the guitars I own it's the best player, with a great action but no personality. 

The Steve Davis Strat https://imgur.com/gallery/jJ7W9

ToneControl

I find that if I set up my amp and FX for my favourite guitar type, other types sound pretty crap when I switch over.
This is much more noticeable on my amp sims

Personally I find strats are the most expressive guitar designs, the clarity from the single coils enables tiny touches to all come through with different sounds, humbuckers almost always lack this quality for me, and on teles, the neck pickup is usually not crisp enough, the bridge too overwound-sounding

dangriffiths

camf said:

octatonic said:

I wasn't being snarky- it just happens that lower output Strat pickups sometimes need a bit of beefing up.
Tele pickups are inherently sharper sounding, humbuckers have more output.

I find a nice clean boost/Klon style pedal gives some beef.
Beyond that it is down to the player and the amp.

Such as:

Hey @octatonic, what's the link for this video?

ICBM

ToneControl said:

I find that if I set up my amp and FX for my favourite guitar type, other types sound pretty crap when I switch over.
This is much more noticeable on my amp sims

Slight diversion, but I find this too - it's what I most don't like about digital modelling. It's even a problem when switching pickups on the same guitar, or changing what/how you play... you can spend ages getting something dialled in *just right* and it sounds great, then you change something at the guitar and you're back to square one - you end up constantly tinkering, going round and round in circles. Valve amps, and to some extent analogue solid-state ones, don't do that.

ToneControl said:

Personally I find strats are the most expressive guitar designs, the clarity from the single coils enables tiny touches to all come through with different sounds, humbuckers almost always lack this quality for me, and on teles, the neck pickup is usually not crisp enough, the bridge too overwound-sounding

I specifically like the big difference in the Tele pickups, the pickup selector acts almost like a channel switch on the amp if you've got it set up right - hence why the first point is so frustrating...

I think this may be one of the reasons Strats are often popular with players who use a lot of effects, exactly because the three pickups are identical and only differ in harmonic content due to position on the string.

Jonathanthomas83

ICBM said:

ToneControl said:

I find that if I set up my amp and FX for my favourite guitar type, other types sound pretty crap when I switch over.
This is much more noticeable on my amp sims

Slight diversion, but I find this too - it's what I most don't like about digital modelling. It's even a problem when switching pickups on the same guitar, or changing what/how you play... you can spend ages getting something dialled in *just right* and it sounds great, then you change something at the guitar and you're back to square one - you end up constantly tinkering, going round and round in circles. Valve amps, and to some extent analogue solid-state ones, don't do that.

I disagree, and as @ToneControl alludes to, it's still a problem with real amps, as well as modelling, which is expected as it is modelling a real amp. The difference is of course, you can set up presets for different guitars.

Voxman

Jonathanthomas83 said:

ICBM said:

ToneControl said:

I find that if I set up my amp and FX for my favourite guitar type, other types sound pretty crap when I switch over.
This is much more noticeable on my amp sims

Slight diversion, but I find this too - it's what I most don't like about digital modelling. It's even a problem when switching pickups on the same guitar, or changing what/how you play... you can spend ages getting something dialled in *just right* and it sounds great, then you change something at the guitar and you're back to square one - you end up constantly tinkering, going round and round in circles. Valve amps, and to some extent analogue solid-state ones, don't do that.

I disagree, and as @ToneControl alludes to, it's still a problem with real amps, as well as modelling, which is expected as it is modelling a real amp. The difference is of course, you can set up presets for different guitars.

Which is exactly what I do on my modelling gear - some patches are just for my single coil guitars (Strats/Telecaster) whilst others are for my hum-bucker guitars i.e. Les Paul/SG/Epi Sheraton.