Strats. Are they a bit characterless?

ICBM

Jonathanthomas83 said:

I disagree, and as @ToneControl alludes to, it's still a problem with real amps, as well as modelling, which is expected as it is modelling a real amp. The difference is of course, you can set up presets for different guitars.

I've never found it a problem with any valve amp I've used, but have with every digital modeller I've tried, and some analogue solid-state ones. It's not setting them up for different guitars that's the problem, it's that the response changes too much when you switch pickups or change playing technique on the same guitar. Strats do it less, but still some.

Jonathanthomas83

I guess it depends on our definition of what actually happens when we change guitar. If I've set my amp for a nice clean with a Strat and switch to my PRS, then that clean goes out the window as it's got hotter pickups. Not necessarily bad, but it's not what I set it up to be, and no good for plug and play unless I like that sound.

I've always had this problems with amps, and was one of the fundamental reasons I switched to modelling. 

Unless I've got totally the wrong end of the stick, apologies if I have.

ICBM

Jonathanthomas83 said:

I guess it depends on our definition of what actually happens when we change guitar. If I've set my amp for a nice clean with a Strat and switch to my PRS, then that clean goes out the window as it's got hotter pickups. Not necessarily bad, but it's not what I set it up to be, and no good for plug and play unless I like that sound.

I've always had this problems with amps, and was one of the fundamental reasons I switched to modelling. 

Unless I've got totally the wrong end of the stick, apologies if I have.

Not quite - I actually want different guitars to sound different, and I don't really mind dialling an amp in for different ones, because I never use more than one guitar live anyway. The difference is that when you change the sound on the same guitar, either with the pickup selector or technique, I've always found that a valve amp tends to respond to that naturally and predictably, whereas a modeller seems to over-react and go from just-right to bad, making it necessary to dial it in again. Obviously this is a real problem for playing live.

It is true that Strats tend to do this less, because the pickups are very evenly voiced, but I definitely found it a problem with my PRS, with its much hotter bridge pickup compared to the neck, and coil splits. I think this is part of the 'characterless' thing with Strats - they're better at allowing the player to interact directly with the amp rather than the guitar putting too much of a restriction on that. Unfortunately I don't find Strats work all that well for me in a tone way, I find them a bit thin-sounding - I prefer the hotter Tele bridge pickup.

guitarfishbay

I do know what you mean @ICBM ;

All I'll say is I'm happy with my Axe FX for this, it's better than anything else I've tried for responding to playing dynamics, though I still haven't tried a Kemper.  A bunch of the songs I do use a lot of positions on the guitar, and combinations of single strings and chords.  I find I'm happy with the response of it, where I've struggled with some other modelling gear to get the whole range of the guitar as usable.

Wolfetone

I've had a few Strats over the years and only bonded with one which wasn't a Fender but a 70's Sumbro Strat all natural with a maple neck. 

lasermonkey

thermionic said:

There’s a good story in the Forrest White book about Leo testing a guitar or amp for hours on his workbench. Someone eventually went in there and tuned the guitar to an open chord!

Yeah, I'd have done that!

stickyfiddle

I'm completely the other way on amp settings. I like to have my amp set the same for everything, and then use different guitars precisely *because* they sound very different. Maybe that's why I like everything quite bright & trebly at the amp, as it lets the darkest guitars sound good and the brighter ones have their tones down a bit. 

That said, I also like to have all my guitars have a similar level of output - I don't like super hot pickups, and have no idea how anyone gets on with pickups that have different output levels in the same guitar. That would do my head in.

Roland

stickyfiddle said:

 ... no idea how anyone gets on with pickups that have different output levels in the same guitar...

You get used to nudging the volume control when you change pickup. 

BBBlues

Or you use different pickups for different purposes. For a strat, I always have the bridge PU physically higher/closer the the strings than the others. Flick to bridge, tone just rolled off then stomp on your favourite fat dirt or fuzz pedal = magic.

ICBM

BBBlues said:

Or you use different pickups for different purposes. For a strat, I always have the bridge PU physically higher/closer the the strings than the others. Flick to bridge, tone just rolled off then stomp on your favourite fat dirt or fuzz pedal = magic.

Exactly. I prefer a hotter/more Tele-like pickup in the bridge as well if possible - even without a tone control. If you're using the neck and middle pickups for clean sounds just below the point of break-up and then switch to the bridge, you get natural overdrive and very little volume change. In theory that's what the Fender 'Delta Tone' system was supposed to do, with both a hotter bridge pickup and a no-load tone control, but I never liked that particular pickup.

PhilKing

I love Strats and have done since the mid 70's, when I got to play a real 61 Strat.  I have a few vintage ones, but also have a lot that I've put together from various parts.  To me the Strat responds to your playing more and there is much more that you can do with the tones from it.  I do have a couple with humbuckers in the bridge position and I have a couple of hardtails (one with a Tele bridge and bridge pickup), so I'm not just a 3 single coil purist.  I think that the scale length gives more natural harmonics than the Gibson scale length and that is part of why I like them (just to confirm that, I had a Les Paul made with a 25.5" scale, and it really does have more natural overtones, even though the constuction is glued in neck and humbucker pickups).

It took me a long time to get into Telecasters though.  I think it was in the early 90's, when I was playing a Japanese 62, when I finally found one I liked.  Part of it is that the neck felt very similar to my 1960 Strat neck.  Teles do drive the amp a bit more, but I am never really happy with the neck pickup in them.  I put a DanElectro lipstick tube in my Jap neck position and that really worked for me.

It is all down to personal preference though.  I've played most of our set on different guitars, since I usually only take one along to the rehearsals, and for me it just comes down to what you get used to I suppose.  I'm lucky in having a lot to choose from, though through the years, I've always had a Strat, whereas I've gone through many other guitars.

Fuengi

With the above comments in mind I sat and played 'Steve' tonight for about an hour. I think, above all, what I am hearing is pure 'signal'. 

HAL9000

ICBM said:

Unfortunately I don't find Strats work all that well for me in a tone way, I find them a bit thin-sounding - I prefer the hotter Tele bridge pickup.

I know what you mean about Strats sounding a bit 'thin' but I wonder if it's somehow in the mind of the player (if that makes any sense at all). Strats, to me anyway, always sound a bit 'thin' and don't really seem to cut through when I'm playing them, but sound ok when I hear others playing them - even with the same guitar through the same amp.

sweepy

The S1 switching system is a neat way of beefing up a Strat if you find the tone a bit lightweight

ESBlonde

There are far too many examples of good sounding strats with great sound characture. They are very versatile and you need to experiment to get your sound from it.
These days I mainly use two sounds/pickup combinations on a strat. Bridge/mid with the tone backed off and neck with the tone wide open. Other guitars (including a Tele) cover the other bases nicely for me. But gigging with just a strat is a great way to gig.

Phil_aka_Pip

Roland said:

stickyfiddle said:

 ... no idea how anyone gets on with pickups that have different output levels in the same guitar...

You get used to nudging the volume control when you change pickup. 

If they'd put the pickup switch where it is on a Les Paul that wouldn't happen so much