Fender to buy Gibson?

dindude

Fretwired said:

Whitecat said:

No one is going to buy Gibson in their current state.

The guitar making bit has strong revenues and profits. 

This keeps coming up, if it’s true then why do we spend our lives dissing everything they come out with as they must be doing the guitar bit OK. 

Winny_Pooh

Can anyone @ me and explain why Fender is in trouble? They dominate a huge part of the market and have a large markups plus they never bought a crapload of companies they didn't need AFAIK.

ICBM

Winny_Pooh said:

Can anyone @ me and explain why Fender is in trouble? They dominate a huge part of the market and have a large markups plus they never bought a crapload of companies they didn't need AFAIK.

Yes they did - that’s exactly why they’re in debt. They even closed some of them down, so they were clearly bad investments. The difference with Gibson is that they stuck to guitar-related companies (as far as I know) and that their own profitability is higher so their credit rating hasn’t been downgraded and they’re less under pressure from their banks.

guitars4you

ICBM said:

Winny_Pooh said:

Can anyone @ me and explain why Fender is in trouble? They dominate a huge part of the market and have a large markups plus they never bought a crapload of companies they didn't need AFAIK.

Yes they did - that’s exactly why they’re in debt. They even closed some of them down, so they were clearly bad investments. The difference with Gibson is that they stuck to guitar-related companies (as far as I know) and that their own profitability is higher so their credit rating hasn’t been downgraded and they’re less under pressure from their banks.

Fender purchased SWR, Takamine, Hamer, Ovation, Guild, Genz Benz Guitar Amps, Sunn for starters - maybe others I can't recall 

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

Winny_Pooh said:

Can anyone @ me and explain why Fender is in trouble? They dominate a huge part of the market and have a large markups plus they never bought a crapload of companies they didn't need AFAIK.

Yes they did - that’s exactly why they’re in debt. They even closed some of them down, so they were clearly bad investments. The difference with Gibson is that they stuck to guitar-related companies (as far as I know) and that their own profitability is higher so their credit rating hasn’t been downgraded and they’re less under pressure from their banks.

Guild, Gretsch, Jackson, Charvel, Ovation(?), Hamer, Sunn, SWR, Tacoma, EVH is a Fender brand... Squier of course.  Loads of them.

(Edit:  Oops, virtually duplicated Mr Hopkin's post)

Parker

*Just another smart arse post....move along!

Winny_Pooh

guitars4you said:

ICBM said:

Winny_Pooh said:

Can anyone @ me and explain why Fender is in trouble? They dominate a huge part of the market and have a large markups plus they never bought a crapload of companies they didn't need AFAIK.

Yes they did - that’s exactly why they’re in debt. They even closed some of them down, so they were clearly bad investments. The difference with Gibson is that they stuck to guitar-related companies (as far as I know) and that their own profitability is higher so their credit rating hasn’t been downgraded and they’re less under pressure from their banks.

Fender purchased SWR, Takamine, Hamer, Ovation, Guild, Genz Benz Guitar Amps, Sunn for starters - maybe others I can't recall 

I know of some of those companies they bought and just never assumed they were lossmakers on a large scale.

Dominic

guitars4you said:

ICBM said:

Winny_Pooh said:

Can anyone @ me and explain why Fender is in trouble? They dominate a huge part of the market and have a large markups plus they never bought a crapload of companies they didn't need AFAIK.

Yes they did - that’s exactly why they’re in debt. They even closed some of them down, so they were clearly bad investments. The difference with Gibson is that they stuck to guitar-related companies (as far as I know) and that their own profitability is higher so their credit rating hasn’t been downgraded and they’re less under pressure from their banks.

Fender purchased SWR, Takamine, Hamer, Ovation, Guild, Genz Benz Guitar Amps, Sunn for starters - maybe others I can't recall 

Hamer,Gretsch

ICBM

@MattFGBI may correct me, but from what I remember Fender don't own Gretsch - the company - the Gretsch family still does. What Fender bought was the manufacturing and marketing rights.

Bridgehouse

Can’t be true.

Fibson.

WezV

The designs don’t directly compete with each other.   

If Fender were in a better place, why not

JerkMoans

Bridgehouse said:

Can’t be true.

Fibson.

Fake news!

Sad!

richardhomer

WezV said:

The designs don’t directly compete with each other.   

If Fender were in a better place, why not

The two biggest American guitar brands under common ownership makes perfect sense to me....

ICBM

WezV said:

The designs don’t directly compete with each other.

They do in the sense that there are probably a finite number of potential guitar sales in any given year.

WezV

ICBM said:

WezV said:

The designs don’t directly compete with each other.

They do in the sense that there are probably a finite number of potential guitar sales in any given year.

Yes, but most buyers already know if the want F or G style.  Playing one won’t convince them they don’t want the other.

a company that offered both, with historical brands intact, would be in a very strong position

WezV

Think of it in terms of a companies whole product range.  The aim is to have something within the range that could appeal to any player

dindude

WezV said:

Think of it in terms of a companies whole product range.  The aim is to have something within the range that could appeal to any player

Fender had that opportunity to fill the hum bucket set-neck slot with Hamer and fucked it up. 

ICBM

WezV said:

Yes, but most buyers already know if the want F or G style.  Playing one won’t convince them they don’t want the other.

Many players seem to want both. If they only have a finite amount of money to spend, buying one will prevent them buying the other, at least in the short term - so they are in competition for the same number of sales.

WezV said:

a company that offered both, with historical brands intact, would be in a very strong position

Agreed, since they would then make a sale either way. Of course there are other brands too so they still wouldn't have a monopoly, but it would be a fairly large step closer to that.

It would be quite like Boeing buying McDonnell-Douglas, in fact. (With Yamaha as Airbus, probably.)

WezV

dindude said:

WezV said:

Think of it in terms of a companies whole product range.  The aim is to have something within the range that could appeal to any player

Fender had that opportunity to fill the hum bucket set-neck slot with Hamer and fucked it up. 

I like hamer.... but they are not Gibson.   The designs are similar.  The strength of brand is not

Philly_Q

Maybe Amazon will buy Gibson.

They've got the money.  And they had a practice run with all those 2015 models they knocked out cheap.