Upgrades to a very cheap guitar suggestions ?

baldy

Back in December I bought an extremely cheap Les Paul copy (Rockburn) for £25 as my first guitar. I couldn't get on with it & thought that the problem was the guitar (scale length fret/fingerboard size/shape) so bought a Yamaha 611 off here (which I love).
3 months in to learning I now realise that the problem was me as then any guitar felt alien in my hands & my fingers wouldn' go where I wanted them to ( still won't but getting better).Now that L.P. feels ok so as I like the shape & colour, & it owes me practically nothing I am considering upgrading a few things (even if it is just an exersise in how to swap things out on a guitar).
The neck is set & is straight.
I know that the tuners are rubbish as are the pick ups & the 2 tone controls don't seem to do anything (the 2 volume pots seem to work fine) ?
Any suggestions (links would be great) to some better but budget tuners & pups & tone pots ?
I don' want to spend to much but as it only owes me £25 I don't mind throwing a few quid at it even as a learning exersise.
I can solder & have a bit of an engineering background  so think that it should be do-able for me ?

crunchman

For that guitar, I'd be looking at someone's cast off Epiphone stuff for pots and tuners etc.  People who upgrade their Epiphones must have leftover bits that would be a siginificant upgrade on that guitar.

Tone Rider or Kent Armstrong are reasonable quality budget pickups.  Not sure you would want to buy new for that guitar but might be worth it if you can find a set second hand on Feebay.

markj

I would look on eBay for second hand pickups from an epiphone or similar. I wouldn’t buy a new set.

Phil_aka_Pip

1. Tuners = easy change, worth the money to make it stay in tune (prime requirement whatever the rest of the instrument is like)
2. tone controls = do-able, try checking the wiring and maybe substitute caps before removing pots as you may not need to remove pots. relatively cheap.
3. Pickups = do-able, but you can easily spend more on them than you did on the guitar, so do last only if you really like what you've done up till now and want to take it a stage further
   

Keep the bits you took off, just in case you want to move the new bits from the £25 guitar to another one you buy later and want to tart that up instead. Then you refit the old bits to the £25 guitar and either move it on or hang it on the wall for decoration.

thermionic

Apart from the pickups, pots & switch, the best money you could spend on a cheap guitar would be a good setup. Getting the nut slots cut right, truss rod tweaked and a basic fret dress to sort out any high frets that cause buzzing would be money well-spent imo. I've never found a set of tuners that are inadequate, even on cheap guitars - I think this is a common misconception and a nut that hasn't been properly cut is more likely to be the root of tuning problems. With an engineering background, I think you could learn a lot (and get good results) with a copy of Dan Erlewine's books and a set of nut files.

Rocker

I think I have a pair of Epiphone pickups that came out of my Epi LP in storage *somewhere*. I will take a look sometime today....

baldy

Rocker said:

I think I have a pair of Epiphone pickups that came out of my Epi LP in storage *somewhere*. I will take a look sometime today....

Thanks.

Wolfetone

Personally, I would be reluctant to throw good time and money after bad regardless of how little it owes you. The only upside is that you will get to learn some technical skills on a guitar that, if it doesn't work out, won't break your heart or the bank.

My advice, if you are determined, is to use all s/h stuff. used iron Gear pickups can go for very little s/h and they are very good. Same with tuners.

Now, if you're really serious about splashing some cash, your Pacifica will react very well to upgrades as the platform is a good one.


https://imgur.com/a/v9K93

baldy

thermionic said:

Apart from the pickups, pots & switch, the best money you could spend on a cheap guitar would be a good setup. Getting the nut slots cut right, truss rod tweaked and a basic fret dress to sort out any high frets that cause buzzing would be money well-spent imo. I've never found a set of tuners that are inadequate, even on cheap guitars - I think this is a common misconception and a nut that hasn't been properly cut is more likely to be the root of tuning problems. With an engineering background, I think you could learn a lot (and get good results) with a copy of Dan Erlewine's books and a set of nut files.

I lowered the action height & set the intonation when I got the guitar. The neck is straight (set neck which I have checked) & the frets are pretty much level although a little rough on the ends, easy enough to smooth off. The tuners are very sloppy & snatchy if that makes sense.  You can turn them a bit with nothing happening then the gears will catch & tighten too much. I think they are actually unwinding themselves slightly ?
The pups are some unbranded Chinese ones that probably cost a couple of quid each. Acoustically the guitar is quite resonant & seems pretty solid. 
I just thought that considering what it owes me then for not a lot of money swapping out parts I could have something at least as good as the cheaper epi's.
Even if not the exercise would be good practice for any future mods I may want to do. 

ESBlonde

baldy said:

thermionic said:

Apart from the pickups, pots & switch, the best money you could spend on a cheap guitar would be a good setup. Getting the nut slots cut right, truss rod tweaked and a basic fret dress to sort out any high frets that cause buzzing would be money well-spent imo. I've never found a set of tuners that are inadequate, even on cheap guitars - I think this is a common misconception and a nut that hasn't been properly cut is more likely to be the root of tuning problems. With an engineering background, I think you could learn a lot (and get good results) with a copy of Dan Erlewine's books and a set of nut files.

I lowered the action height & set the intonation when I got the guitar. The neck is straight (set neck which I have checked) & the frets are pretty much level although a little rough on the ends, easy enough to smooth off. The tuners are very sloppy & snatchy if that makes sense.  You can turn them a bit with nothing happening then the gears will catch & tighten too much. I think they are actually unwinding themselves slightly ?
The pups are some unbranded Chinese ones that probably cost a couple of quid each. Acoustically the guitar is quite resonant & seems pretty solid. 
I just thought that considering what it owes me then for not a lot of money swapping out parts I could have something at least as good as the cheaper epi's.
Even if not the exercise would be good practice for any future mods I may want to do. 

Always slacken off and tune up to pitch, that way the gears are fully engaged and under tension. That goes for any brand of tuning peg, and I agree with @thermionic that pretty much any set of tuners can be made to work, fancy ones just feel better and give used assurance.

I also think you should invest little in the way of cash but use it as a learning experience or skill development project. Well worth knowing how to maintain your gear.

baldy

I have looked at the  gear teeth & they are poorly cut & aligned with some having part of a tooth missing or worn away. They are made of the poorest quality metal you can imagine. Considering the body & neck are solid & straight & the frets not bad then if I spent £75 on it it would still only owe me £100. I love the  Yamaha 611 I have but do like the shape of an L.P & the HB sound.

thermionic

baldy said:

thermionic said:

Apart from the pickups, pots & switch, the best money you could spend on a cheap guitar would be a good setup. Getting the nut slots cut right, truss rod tweaked and a basic fret dress to sort out any high frets that cause buzzing would be money well-spent imo. I've never found a set of tuners that are inadequate, even on cheap guitars - I think this is a common misconception and a nut that hasn't been properly cut is more likely to be the root of tuning problems. With an engineering background, I think you could learn a lot (and get good results) with a copy of Dan Erlewine's books and a set of nut files.

IThe tuners are very sloppy & snatchy if that makes sense.  You can turn them a bit with nothing happening then the gears will catch & tighten too much. I think they are actually unwinding themselves slightly ?

I've never encountered a set of tuners that bad myself, but that does sound like something that can be improved for around £30.

Funkfingers

@baldy Please post a few photographs of your Rockburn guitar, front and back. I probably have a bunch of "surplus" low budget parts that you can have for the price of the shipping. Just don't expect all of the hardware finish colours to match.

baldy

I am on my phone but I will post some pics when I am home on my laptop. Oh & thanks very much 

Funkfingers

In that case, for that time being, is the Rockburn hardware finished in chrome, gold or black? (I doubt that it would be nickel.)

WezV

thermionic said:

baldy said:

thermionic said:

Apart from the pickups, pots & switch, the best money you could spend on a cheap guitar would be a good setup. Getting the nut slots cut right, truss rod tweaked and a basic fret dress to sort out any high frets that cause buzzing would be money well-spent imo. I've never found a set of tuners that are inadequate, even on cheap guitars - I think this is a common misconception and a nut that hasn't been properly cut is more likely to be the root of tuning problems. With an engineering background, I think you could learn a lot (and get good results) with a copy of Dan Erlewine's books and a set of nut files.

IThe tuners are very sloppy & snatchy if that makes sense.  You can turn them a bit with nothing happening then the gears will catch & tighten too much. I think they are actually unwinding themselves slightly ?

I've never encountered a set of tuners that bad myself, but that does sound like something that can be improved for around £30.

I have, many times.... probably  because I used to help out a mates  rock school to keep the cheap guitars like this running.   Failed tuner gears was a common issue.  

regluing spliced headstocks  that had opened up was the second most common issue on the Gibson styles

Tuners would be the first thing I would replace, because even a budget set will often give an instant improvement.   Check the bridge over too, Cheap TOM's can be very rattly.

NeilMcG

Upgrading and experimenting is great fun. As long as you hang on to any expensive parts you buy when you move a guitar on then it needn't cost much.

I'd recommend the Vanson guitars unbranded tuners (look on ebay for their shop), they are pretty good for cheapies (£15). I just stuck a set on my "Scraptocaster" and they work perfectly.

Pots are cheap - the Alpha ones (both full size and minature) are under £3 each.

Pickups - your call completely. See what is around s/h on here, or maybe toneriders or irongear - they are both affordable.

baldy

Funkfingers said:

In that case, for that time being, is the Rockburn hardware finished in chrome, gold or black? (I doubt that it would be nickel.)

The hardware is gold coloured.

Funkfingers

Oh, plop. My "surplus" machineheads are the chrome-plated Jin-Ho closed gear housing type. Some sets are unbranded. Some are embossed with the OEM end-user brand name. e.g. Hamer, PRS. 

If a friend of mine pulls his finger out about tarting up his Höhner L59, I may soon have a spare set of faded gold 'heads.

*

On a general level, it would be worth your while removing one of the wound strings on the Rockburn LP copy and, then, carefully unfastening the tuner.

With the tuner removed, you can look for manufacturer identity markings on (normally hidden) face of the gear housing. 

Also, measure the diameter of the drilled hole through which the tuner passes through the headstock. This will give you a better idea of which replacement hardware would fit without resorting to modification.

baldy

Wolfetone said:

Personally, I would be reluctant to throw good time and money after bad regardless of how little it owes you. The only upside is that you will get to learn some technical skills on a guitar that, if it doesn't work out, won't break your heart or the bank.

My advice, if you are determined, is to use all s/h stuff. used iron Gear pickups can go for very little s/h and they are very good. Same with tuners.

Now, if you're really serious about splashing some cash, your Pacifica will react very well to upgrades as the platform is a good one.


https://imgur.com/a/v9K93

I am very happy with my Pacifica as it is.
It is a 611s, hardtail model.
It has Grover autolock tuners, roller string trees, graphtec nut, Seymour Duncan SP90 on the bridge, Seymour Duncan Custom  HB on the bridge, coil split on the HB, Graph Tech String Saver saddle as standard.
I use Dunlop strap locks just to be safe.

munckee

On the point of not investing too much money in a cheap guitar I bought a harley benton semi hollow and put gibson tuners and seymour duncan vintage blues pickups in it, changed the cruddy pickguard and got new knobs etc and its fantastic, in my view much better than an epi dot and this cost me the same as a used dot.  

Plus as other people have said had I completely screwed it up I would have been down a £100 guitar and still had the parts.