Strat Pickups, are they supposed to be out of line like this?

robgilmo

My E string sounded muted, couldn't figure out why, could this be the problem? The bridge pickup is fine, its the neck pickup that's the problem.
My first reaction is they are supposed to be like this, if you straighten out the bridge it wouldn't line up with the strings either, but I'm not so sure, any ideas?

  https://i.imgur.com/M7Fn7mH.jpg

robgilmo

robgilmo

ICBM

It won’t make any difference, but if it could be a cause, as usual the problem is the neck alignment not the bridge or the pickups. 

If if you want to see if adjusting it helps, loosen the neck screws slightly and pull the headstock towards the treble side until the position dots are centred between the G and D strings, then re-tighten.

I would say the problem is more likely to be the ridiculous amount of stagger on the polepieces - the B and G strings will be far too loud compared to the E.

robgilmo

The first position dot does look slightly out, would you loosen the strings before adjustment? or just very slightly loosen the screws with the string tension as is?

thegummy

What pickups are they?

Mine are the Fat 50s and the stagger is far from set to provide an even string response but the stagger is different to yours - the B string one is the lowest of all 6

robgilmo

Mexican pickups from 1994. I have tried to adjust the neck and it helped slightly, they are now evenly out of line on the top and bottom strings.
To my untrained ears they don't sound too bad. I wonder if the choking might be a saddle? I will have another play with it tomorrow night and check everything properly.

robgilmo

robgilmo

ICBM

I would replace those. Aside from the wrong stagger, they’re not known for sounding great usually... cheap construction with separate ceramic magnets on the bottom rather than individual string magnets.

If one pickup is noticeably dull on one string, it could be that the polepiece is not properly in contact with the magnet. If the middle pickup sounds OK it’s not an issue with the rest of the guitar.

impmann

ICBM said:

I would replace those. Aside from the wrong stagger, they’re not known for sounding great usually... cheap construction with separate ceramic magnets on the bottom rather than individual string magnets.

If one pickup is noticeably dull on one string, it could be that the polepiece is not properly in contact with the magnet. If the middle pickup sounds OK it’s not an issue with the rest of the guitar.

This.

Three-ColourSunburst

Once you are sure the neck is straight, you might be able to adjust the stagger of the pole pieces. Apparently Fender often use a 'vintage' stagger that would be right with a rounder, vintage neck, even when the neck fitted is much flatter. See the video below.

ICBM

Three-ColourSunburst said:

you might be able to adjust the stagger of the pole pieces.

Not with those ones you won't. If you look at the last pic above you can see that the polepieces are glued to the magnets with (I think) epoxy. This may well be the cause of the problem if one string is quiet - sometimes the magnets don't contact the polepiece properly, there's enough of a layer of glue in the way to reduce the effectiveness.

They're just really not very good pickups, and the best solution is to simply replace them with ones made the proper way.

I should have spotted that originally (my excuse is that I was looking on a phone not a big screen ), the turning marks are visible on the polepiece ends which is the sign of a pickup made this way - they're steel slugs rather than actual magnets.

thegummy

Isn't the whole point of the staggered pickups because the imbalance is what's desired, possibly due to them being used with flatter fretboards historically?

I mean regarding that video, not the OP. I mean in American Strat pickups.

impmann

thegummy said:

Isn't the whole point of the staggered pickups because the imbalance is what's desired, possibly due to them being used with flatter fretboards historically?

I mean regarding that video, not the OP. I mean in American Strat pickups.

Not desired by anyone with ears... IMHO.

Frankly, staggered pole pieces are a bloody stupid idea. The stagger on vintage units was to compensate for a wound G string - apart from a few people, VERY few use one these days so combined with modern flatter boards, its just a bad sound IMHO.

All of my Strats have non staggered pole pieces - and I massively prefer it. You can have a 'vintage' sounding pickup without the need for it.

thegummy

impmann said:

thegummy said:

Isn't the whole point of the staggered pickups because the imbalance is what's desired, possibly due to them being used with flatter fretboards historically?

I mean regarding that video, not the OP. I mean in American Strat pickups.

Not desired by anyone with ears... IMHO.

Frankly, staggered pole pieces are a bloody stupid idea. The stagger on vintage units was to compensate for a wound G string - apart from a few people, VERY few use one these days so combined with modern flatter boards, its just a bad sound IMHO.

All of my Strats have non staggered pole pieces - and I massively prefer it. You can have a 'vintage' sounding pickup without the need for it.

Aren't some of the classic Strat records done with at least a non-wound G, if not also with a flatter radius than 7.25 but with staggered pole piece pickups?

impmann

thegummy said:

impmann said:

thegummy said:

Isn't the whole point of the staggered pickups because the imbalance is what's desired, possibly due to them being used with flatter fretboards historically?

I mean regarding that video, not the OP. I mean in American Strat pickups.

Not desired by anyone with ears... IMHO.

Frankly, staggered pole pieces are a bloody stupid idea. The stagger on vintage units was to compensate for a wound G string - apart from a few people, VERY few use one these days so combined with modern flatter boards, its just a bad sound IMHO.

All of my Strats have non staggered pole pieces - and I massively prefer it. You can have a 'vintage' sounding pickup without the need for it.

Aren't some of the classic Strat records done with at least a non-wound G, if not also with a flatter radius than 7.25 but with staggered pole piece pickups?

Perhaps they are. Thats not to say I like those sounds - people seem to think Sweet Home Alabama has a "great Strat sound". Frankly I think its vile - thin, weedy, harsh are good adjectives in my book... but hey, if we all liked the same things.

Its also worth mentioning that a lot of classic Strat recordings feature lots of compression to even the sound up... Dire Straits anyone?

Like I say, its not universally desired.

robgilmo

thegummy

impmann said:

thegummy said:

impmann said:

thegummy said:

Isn't the whole point of the staggered pickups because the imbalance is what's desired, possibly due to them being used with flatter fretboards historically?

I mean regarding that video, not the OP. I mean in American Strat pickups.

Not desired by anyone with ears... IMHO.

Frankly, staggered pole pieces are a bloody stupid idea. The stagger on vintage units was to compensate for a wound G string - apart from a few people, VERY few use one these days so combined with modern flatter boards, its just a bad sound IMHO.

All of my Strats have non staggered pole pieces - and I massively prefer it. You can have a 'vintage' sounding pickup without the need for it.

Aren't some of the classic Strat records done with at least a non-wound G, if not also with a flatter radius than 7.25 but with staggered pole piece pickups?

Perhaps they are. Thats not to say I like those sounds - people seem to think Sweet Home Alabama has a "great Strat sound". Frankly I think its vile - thin, weedy, harsh are good adjectives in my book... but hey, if we all liked the same things.

Its also worth mentioning that a lot of classic Strat recordings feature lots of compression to even the sound up... Dire Straits anyone?

Like I say, its not universally desired.

I'd doubt any one preferred the string imbalance of individual notes (which would be changed by compression) but more chords which would have a different tonality even compressed.

I thought about changing my pickups to evenly spaced ones just through common sense but when I researched it I found out that a lot of people do desire the imbalance, it's not just a mistake by fender.

Modulus_Amps

impmann said:

thegummy said:

Isn't the whole point of the staggered pickups because the imbalance is what's desired, possibly due to them being used with flatter fretboards historically?

I mean regarding that video, not the OP. I mean in American Strat pickups.

Not desired by anyone with ears... IMHO.

Frankly, staggered pole pieces are a bloody stupid idea. The stagger on vintage units was to compensate for a wound G string - apart from a few people, VERY few use one these days so combined with modern flatter boards, its just a bad sound IMHO.

All of my Strats have non staggered pole pieces - and I massively prefer it. You can have a 'vintage' sounding pickup without the need for it.

Agreed the way fender continue to stagger is plain stupid but I still stagger mine for equal string output and it make a pretty big difference in terms of string separation and not needing a compressor to even things out or to boost lead playing when you go to the higher strings...

If you have DAW software, plug in direct and record even picking on each string, three plucks per strings and then compare the wave forms, no chance you will have even string output, but you can adjust the pickup to fix it... well some anyway.

thegummy

I found this video just now from BKP where they compare the same guitar with the same pickups but one is vintage staggered and the other flat.

I watched the initial comparison and both sounded good, couldn't really pick a favourite from that.

Then I got distracted replying to a text but still listening to the demos then I suddenly heard that amazing Strat sound I love and it suddenly sounded so good so I skipped back slightly and it was actually him switching to the vintage from the flat that produced that sound.

Two good points he makes in the video are that, first and obviously, it's purely personal preference. The other is that neither really cause a problem with string to string balance, the vintage is less balanced of course but not terribly so by any means.