Stays in tune?

robgilmo

Ok, so , when someone says this about a guitar, do they go out of tune easily? I mean, none of my guitars randomly go out of tune, unless its quite cold or hot, but when I am playing yhem they usually always stay in tune, have I just been lucky?

Phil_aka_Pip

They should stay in tune (climate and atmospherics permitting) if the machine heads are any good, and if the strings have been wound onto the capstans properly, and the strings slide in the nut slots properly, and if they slide over the bridge saddle properly, and if the bridge and the neck don't move. And if the strings themselves are not so old as to lose their elasticity and you don't do stupidly wide bends or vibrato.

guitarfishbay

It’s a huge topic and it’ll vary not only according to instrument setup and string condition, but also playing style.

Then there’s stays in tune vs plays in tune, which again is a combination of instrument and player factors.

If you don’t have issues don’t worry about it is my opinion. 

Elwood

It sounds like you don't play Gibson

thegummy

If you do a lot of bending and/or trem use and they still stay in tune then you've got good guitars in that respect.

And Elwood is probably right :P 

stickyfiddle

A lot of people complain about Gibsons (in particularly) going out of tune because a lot of guitarists have no idea how to restring a guitar, or how to do their own setups. 

fastonebaz

I'd say most people's tuning problems stem from not stretching be strings sufficiently after fitting. 

guitarfishbay

stickyfiddle said:

A lot of people complain about Gibsons (in particularly) going out of tune because a lot of guitarists have no idea how to restring a guitar, or how to do their own setups. 

Even then they still don’t hold their tuning. But it does help a lot - especially if the nut is cut correctly and libricated in some way

Clarky

fastonebaz said:

I'd say most people's tuning problems stem from not stretching be strings sufficiently after fitting. 

also being untidy when winding the strings.. letting them overlap, having too many windings etc..

martinw

I've found Gibsons more sensitive to temperature changes when gigging. My maple (and rosewood) necked guitars might never need tuning, but I could guarantee the mahogany necked guitars would be flat after standing in a cold pub for half an hour, then go sharp after being strapped on for a bit.
I attribute this to different coefficients if expansion maple to mahogany.

thegummy

stickyfiddle said: 

A lot of people complain about Gibsons (in particularly) going out of tune because a lot of guitarists have no idea how to restring a guitar, or how to do their own setups. 

Yet they mysteriously manage to get their fenders, prs's etc. to stay in tune fine

ICBM

Gibsons are definitely more prone to magnifying tuning problems than most Fenders simply because of the very sharp nut angles and high bridges, but there’s nothing inherently different.

Some Fenders are bad too though, especially 70s Strats with sloppy neck joints which move and soft bridges which bind against the pivot screws.

It’s simply a question of making sure that things that shouldn’t move can’t move, and things that should move can move freely. Otherwise, as long as you don’t exceed the elastic limit of the steel, the strings cannot go out of tune.

If the strings are locked tightly to the tuner posts by whichever is your favourite method, you only tune up to the note (to avoid any backlash in the gears), the strings can move freely at the nut, and the bridge can’t flex or slip out of position - or for a vibrato, will come back accurately to the rest position without friction - then the guitar will stay in tune.

NelsonP

I recently bought an Epiphone casino (with grovers) and tuning is an issue compared to my fender tele and ibanez rg, both of which are rock solid.

Break angle across the nut and d and g string splay are a big part of this. ICBM offered some sage restringing advice which has done the trick.

But the Gibson/ epiphone headstock is not the best design in the world for tuning stability. Amazing they've stuck with it really. Buy a firebird or Trini Lopez!

ftumch

Ive never understood this. I have three gibsons and have never had any tuning issues at all. As previously said, maybe i just know how to string them properly.

thegummy

ftumch said:

Ive never understood this. I have three gibsons and have never had any tuning issues at all. As previously said, maybe i just know how to string them properly.

Again, that idea doesn't make any sense when so many of the complaints are actually referring to the tuning stability of Gibsons compared to other guitar makers.

Tim Pierce, who is one of the top session players in the world and has been for decades, talks about how one of the downsides of Gibsons is the tuning stability. He's had a huge number of guitars from Gibson and other brands over the years so has a lot of experience to make the judgement. Even ignoring the logic re: it being a relative statement, I would be very surprised if it's just that he doesn't know how to put guitar strings on properly...

ICBM

You’d be surprised how many professional players either don’t know how to string a guitar properly, or use a less than ideal method, many of which can be found in books or on the internet as the ‘right’ way...

Stringing and tuning the guitar less than ideally makes a bigger difference on a Gibson than other guitars. If you do it well, all your guitars will stay in tune. If you don’t do it well, the Gibsons will be the worst affected.

Some other brands - eg PRS - have been intentionally designed to make them less reliant on stringing and tuning technique, by using a straight string path and locking machineheads. With Fenders it may have been accidental and due to the ‘engineering’ design of the neck, but it still gives a straight string path.

stickyfiddle

thegummy said:

stickyfiddle said: 

A lot of people complain about Gibsons (in particularly) going out of tune because a lot of guitarists have no idea how to restring a guitar, or how to do their own setups. 

Yet they mysteriously manage to get their fenders, prs's etc. to stay in tune fine

As @ICBM says. that's because the result of poor setup is worse on a Gibson - no argument there. But it doesn't mean Gibsons can't be setup to stay in tune.

guitarfishbay

When you guys say staying in tune do you mean by ear or actually checked against a tuner for any movement?

And for how long do you mean?

To me stays in tune means at least that you don’t have to tune it again on the day of play regardless of how and how much you play it, when checked against a tuner.

Anything less didn’t stay in tune as far as I would be concerned. Though as long as it wasn’t audibly out of tune by the next tuning opportunity (eg between songs) it wouldn’t be an issue for the majority of people.

ICBM

I would certainly say it needs to stay audibly in tune for the length of a set. Anything more is a bonus, but I would still say a guitar that does that ‘stays in tune’.

guitarfishbay

So if we define that as 30-45 minutes I’ve only ever found that possible on double locking trems or on evertune bridges.

I don’t think I’m doing anything wrong but I may well be. I do a bunch of larger bends/wide vibrato though, which doesn’t help matters either.

guitarfishbay

The problem is also that audible will vary from person to person, according to ear development and even taste, since guitars ultimately never quite play in tune anyway.