Price Fixing...?

symphonytech

guitarcookie1 said:

Just been into PMT in Cardiff and none of the electric guitars are priced, they're all labelled "enquire for best price" and "price will be fixed at the till".

Puts me right off tbh

It's a tricky one, especially in the wake of the price-crash that followed the CMA announcement in April.

With prices so volatile, and so distant from a manufacturer's selling price, stores have a tricky balancing act that (once again) disadvantages them from primarily-online retailers:

- if they physically price at 'RRP', or a price they feel safe at, then they are at risk of appearing to be too expensive; not every customer will open discussions about pricing. They will instead just take what value they can from the store (try the product, discuss with staff, compare to other product), before leaving and buying from somewhere who only offered a good price.
- if they have a webstore, and want to be dynamic enough to remain competitve and relevant then they need to be changing pricing regularly - sometimes hourly.
- if they have a webstore, yet want to harmonise pricing to their physical stores (some stores don't, which is another hornets' nest) then they need to either commit to changing pricing hourly (an impossibility), or compromise on price harmony (which pisses off customers who see the product at a different price on the website).

How is the circle best squared?

I assume PMT have taken the short-term (and maybe long-term) approach of removing pricing labels on the most dynamically priced items in the store, thereby allowing them to be dynamic, competitive, and in harmony with their webstore.

Adamski

This thread reminds me of a video I watched of good ‘ol Richard the other day. 

https://youtu.be/FDfmEBQgRQ8

Strangefan

Tbh I think it's sensible .. In a way  they're constantly price matching now on probably every single item over 60 quid, and most buyers  are savvy so they know what it's being sold for online either before they go in the shop or during..
The card, ink etc will save a fair bit because if their in store price is higher than the net price they have to adjust it anyways,, can't blame them really in this tight climate. 

symphonytech

Whitecat said:

Since when do prices ever go down?

erm. now.

Have you seen some of the free fall happening in MI in the wake of the CMA investigation?

symphonytech

 

Whitecat

symphonytech said:

Whitecat said:

Since when do prices ever go down?

erm. now.

Have you seen some of the free fall happening in MI in the wake of the CMA investigation?

Examples?

thebreeze

Adamski said:

This thread reminds me of a video I watched of good ‘ol Richard the other day. 

https://youtu.be/FDfmEBQgRQ8

Interesting - who is Richard and which shop does he run?

symphonytech

Whitecat said:

symphonytech said:

Whitecat said:

Since when do prices ever go down?

erm. now.

Have you seen some of the free fall happening in MI in the wake of the CMA investigation?

Examples?

erm.

Fender

Yamaha

Roland

Korg

etc. etc.

Neil

symphonytech said:

Whitecat said:

symphonytech said:

Whitecat said:

Since when do prices ever go down?

erm. now.

Have you seen some of the free fall happening in MI in the wake of the CMA investigation?

Examples?

erm.

Fender

Yamaha

Roland

Korg

etc. etc.

Specific Fender model examples please?

By the way, please stop prefacing your posts with "erm". It doesn't mean anything and it's a bit annoying. Thanks. 

DougCoda

symphonytech said:

Whitecat said:

symphonytech said:

Whitecat said:

Since when do prices ever go down?

erm. now.

Have you seen some of the free fall happening in MI in the wake of the CMA investigation?

Examples?

erm.

Fender

Yamaha

Roland

Korg

etc. etc.

Margins are way down across the board,I haven't seen it this bad since just before DV247 went to the wall. It's pretty much not worth selling some brands now as they're going out at just above cost and it's certainly not sustainable in the long run. One MI company has just published their August results, turnover up, profit margins way down.

Jez6345789

I heard all of those were dragged in and certain dealer agreements torn up.

That said as a distributor myself albeit in a different area the same issue applies.

retailers are all prone to petty minded hubris and macho price cutting.  A few years ago I sat in a car park on a Friday afternoon with 6 dealers on speed dial trying to talk said dealers in what was a petty price war from selling a product below cost and effectively putting a £50 note in the package and interest-free option.

I am sure its the same in the music instrument business. There will always be dealers who do stupid things and as much as the customer deserves a competitive market. There has to be checks and balances to prevent unsustainable practices, so distributors have to do some coaching to protect brands from ending up being decimated of no value to other retailers so they drop the product then you are screwed as a distributor. 

It's a difficult balancing act.

That hot Friday afternoon in the end after hours of we won't put our prices up unless xxx does and we won't unless this shop stops doing free shipping.  After 3 hours of shuttle diplomacy, I completely lost my shit with all of them and think they all then got told their accounts would be closed Monday morning and despite the value of their collectives businesses being half of our sales if they don't like it we will see them in court.  

Seemingly they managed to get it sorted themselves and peace was resumed but a totally riduclous way for grown people to behave. 

That's how petty and stupid retailers can get not sure guitars are as volatile but I am sure it gets like that at times. 

symphonytech

Neil said:

symphonytech said:

Whitecat said:

symphonytech said:

Whitecat said:

Since when do prices ever go down?

erm. now.

Have you seen some of the free fall happening in MI in the wake of the CMA investigation?

Examples?

erm.

Fender

Yamaha

Roland

Korg

etc. etc.

Specific Fender model examples please?

By the way, please stop prefacing your posts with "erm". It doesn't mean anything and it's a bit annoying. Thanks. 

All of Fender is averaging around 10% lower since the CMA announcement. But if you want a specific example:

Fender American Pro price - dropped roughly £150 between March and May. Hasn't recovered since.

Player series average at roughly 10% margin less (meaning a 40% GP drop) than their predecessors.

Sorry if my erm annoyed you. Was just taking time to consider how best to phrase my response.

Chalky

Erm, if erm annoys you, don't read the effing post.

sev112

Jez6345789 said:

I heard all of those were dragged in and certain dealer agreements torn up.

That said as a distributor myself albeit in a different area the same issue applies.

retailers are all prone to petty minded hubris and macho price cutting.  A few years ago I sat in a car park on a Friday afternoon with 6 dealers on speed dial trying to talk said dealers in what was a petty price war from selling a product below cost and effectively putting a £50 note in the package and interest-free option.

I am sure its the same in the music instrument business. There will always be dealers who do stupid things and as much as the customer deserves a competitive market. There has to be checks and balances to prevent unsustainable practices, so distributors have to do some coaching to protect brands from ending up being decimated of no value to other retailers so they drop the product then you are screwed as a distributor. 

It's a difficult balancing act.

That hot Friday afternoon in the end after hours of we won't put our prices up unless xxx does and we won't unless this shop stops doing free shipping.  After 3 hours of shuttle diplomacy, I completely lost my shit with all of them and think they all then got told their accounts would be closed Monday morning and despite the value of their collectives businesses being half of our sales if they don't like it we will see them in court.  

Seemingly they managed to get it sorted themselves and peace was resumed but a totally riduclous way for grown people to behave. 

That's how petty and stupid retailers can get not sure guitars are as volatile but I am sure it gets like that at times. 

Why isn’t this illegal? Isn’t this what a cartel is?
ive axe to grind, or any technical / legal knowledge other than the extremely limited knowledge demonstrated in the sentence before this.
but I’d be interested to know the background to why the above is acceptable, compared to all companies in an area fixing the price of ready mix concrete which always turns out to be highly illegal?

pmg

I’d suggest that is illegal practice.

TimmyO

Jez6345789 said:

I heard all of those were dragged in and certain dealer agreements torn up.

That said as a distributor myself albeit in a different area the same issue applies.

retailers are all prone to petty minded hubris and macho price cutting.  A few years ago I sat in a car park on a Friday afternoon with 6 dealers on speed dial trying to talk said dealers in what was a petty price war from selling a product below cost and effectively putting a £50 note in the package and interest-free option.

I am sure its the same in the music instrument business. There will always be dealers who do stupid things and as much as the customer deserves a competitive market. There has to be checks and balances to prevent unsustainable practices, so distributors have to do some coaching to protect brands from ending up being decimated of no value to other retailers so they drop the product then you are screwed as a distributor. 

It's a difficult balancing act.

That hot Friday afternoon in the end after hours of we won't put our prices up unless xxx does and we won't unless this shop stops doing free shipping.  After 3 hours of shuttle diplomacy, I completely lost my shit with all of them and think they all then got told their accounts would be closed Monday morning and despite the value of their collectives businesses being half of our sales if they don't like it we will see them in court.  

Seemingly they managed to get it sorted themselves and peace was resumed but a totally riduclous way for grown people to behave. 

That's how petty and stupid retailers can get not sure guitars are as volatile but I am sure it gets like that at times. 

You realise the last two statements apply to you too?