Price Fixing...?

TTony

maltingsaudio said:

this has been an interesting thread so far but one point I feel needs to be raised is that the original link is to the MIA website which is trade only, not that you can’t find it if you know where to look. The or point I’m making is I am very wary of putting links like this up as I believe they should remain trade only and not discussed on a public forum wondered what the collective wisdom is?

It's the first hit on Google for "music industry association".

It's a public website.

If there's content that the MIA want to keep "trade only" then I presume that it will be behind a membership wall, ie a non-public part of the site.

HAL9000

Rocker said:

The price of guitars and amps have not kept up with the wages earned by players. A Fender cost many multiples of my weekly wage in the ‘70s. Now anyone with a half decent salary can pay for it in a week or two. 

Whilst this is undoubtedly true if you compare the '70s to the present, it has not been the case for the last few years. Many people haven't seen a pay increase for two or three years now, but prices for  guitars etc seem to have risen way beyond inflation.

Looking at stuff I've bought in the the last few years...

2015 Fender MIM Strat £440 - now £527
2016  OrangeCrush Pro CR60C £369 - now £469

...so that's 20% over three years (so about 6% annually), and 27% over two years (13% annually) so by my reckoning both are running way ahead of inflation.

rossyamaha

Oh I could tell you all some stories. ;-)

TTony

HAL9000 said:

Looking at stuff I've bought in the the last few years...

2015 Fender MIM Strat £440 - now £527
2016  OrangeCrush Pro CR60C £369 - now £469

...so that's 20% over three years (so about 6% annually), and 27% over two years (13% annually) so by my reckoning both are running way ahead of inflation.

That's because of the price hikes that were imposed when the £/$ rate fell post-Brexit vote.  Lots of prices increased by c20% then purely because of the  fall in £.

As noted above, that exchange rate is now just about back to where it was, so naturally, £ prices of US goods will shortly be reduced by a large part of that 20% ...

guitars4you

rossyamaha said:

Oh I could tell you all some stories. ;-)

we all could and your father in law can add more to that - yet so much is history now of firms that no longer exist - be it wholesales or dealers - Not sure what the current score is regarding retro discounts

carlos

TTony said:

As noted above, that exchange rate is now just about back to where it was, so naturally, £ prices of US goods will shortly be reduced by a large part of that 20% ...

That's how the market works if there's no price fixing. That being the reason this is happening in the first place. And yes, I assume you were being sarcastic, I was replying to the people who think investigating this sort of thing is a waste of time.

Whitecat

Since when do prices ever go down?

guitars4you

Whitecat said:

Since when do prices ever go down?

when the market collapses - I think it is now assumed that rising prices on guitars is to fund falling units sold - so sell 2 guitars with a good margin, as the demand for 3 or 4 at a lower margin is a diminishing market

and from above quotes/comments - equally inflation figures from the government is pretty much a concocted peace of crap - they put in what suits them to show they are in control of the economy - When interest rates go up and your monthly mortgage goes up by £100, that leaves your spare budget with less funds - Hence less funds for leisure etc - But that £100 won't get in the inflation stats

1-2 % inflation has been kept down for many years for many reasons - cheap supply of goods from China/far east has helped this - Just look at Primark clothing prices - almost disposable - no need to buy a washing machine, that needs water and a detergent - almost cheaper to buy a new t-shirt

Whitecat

guitars4you said:

when the market collapses 

I'll grant you that but when that happens it will be symptomatic of so much more that we aren't likely to be celebrating our new low prices...

guitars4you

Whitecat said:

guitars4you said:

when the market collapses 

I'll grant you that but when that happens it will be symptomatic of so much more that we aren't likely to be celebrating our new low prices...

agree - a bit of a flippant reply on my part I know - I have known occasional price drops, but few and far between

crunchman

guitars4you said:

Whitecat said:

guitars4you said:

when the market collapses 

I'll grant you that but when that happens it will be symptomatic of so much more that we aren't likely to be celebrating our new low prices...

agree - a bit of a flippant reply on my part I know - I have known occasional price drops, but few and far between

Sometimes they tweak the model range.  The new American Original Fenders are marginally cheaper than the old AVRIs they replaced.

Strat54

Whitecat said:

Since when do prices ever go down?

They certainly didn't back in 2008 when the pound/dollar rate was at 1.95. That's why a large number of us turned to the U.S for buying. You couldn't go wrong and shipping was much cheaper back then too.If you didn't like the guitar it went on ebay cheap and you didn't lose a bean. Happy days. 

guitars4you

Strat54 said:

Whitecat said:

Since when do prices ever go down?

They certainly didn't back in 2008 when the pound/dollar rate was at 1.95. That's why a large number of us turned to the U.S for buying. You couldn't go wrong and shipping was much cheaper back then too.If you didn't like the guitar it went on ebay cheap and you didn't lose a bean. Happy days. 

as an overview you are right - But I recall in that period a new PRS Custom 22/24 with bird inlays was £1999 - What PRS offered for a few years was a free 10 top worth £400 - so in effect they didn't reduce the price, as such, but offered a free upgrade to maintain the price

Of course always exceptions - but as a big overview then it is not the norm

guitarcookie1

Just been into PMT in Cardiff and none of the electric guitars are priced, they're all labelled "enquire for best price" and "price will be fixed at the till".

Puts me right off tbh

Whitecat

guitarcookie1 said:

Just been into PMT in Cardiff and none of the electric guitars are priced, they're all labelled "enquire for best price" and "price will be fixed at the till".

Puts me right off tbh

I *hate* this approach. At least put the (illegal) MAP on the tag. What if a beginner comes in and starts looking at £3k guitars when all they need is a Squier to get going?

Strat54

guitarcookie1 said:

Just been into PMT in Cardiff and none of the electric guitars are priced, they're all labelled "enquire for best price" and "price will be fixed at the till".

Puts me right off tbh

I'm pretty sure that under the Price Marking laws that this is an illegal practice.

Whitecat

Strat54 said:

guitarcookie1 said:

Just been into PMT in Cardiff and none of the electric guitars are priced, they're all labelled "enquire for best price" and "price will be fixed at the till".

Puts me right off tbh

I'm pretty sure that under the Price Marking laws that this is an illegal practice.

You're right, it's (partly) an EU directive of all things... http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/102/article/4/made

guitars4you

Whitecat said:

Strat54 said:

guitarcookie1 said:

Just been into PMT in Cardiff and none of the electric guitars are priced, they're all labelled "enquire for best price" and "price will be fixed at the till".

Puts me right off tbh

I'm pretty sure that under the Price Marking laws that this is an illegal practice.

You're right, it's (partly) an EU directive of all things... http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/102/article/4/made

I wonder what, if any, the legal criteria is for the size of the price ticket

Whitecat

https://mifocus.co.uk/2018/04/19/cma-opens-investigation-into-alleged-anti-competitive-agreements-in-the-mi-sector/

guitarcookie1

guitars4you said:

Whitecat said:

Strat54 said:

guitarcookie1 said:

Just been into PMT in Cardiff and none of the electric guitars are priced, they're all labelled "enquire for best price" and "price will be fixed at the till".

Puts me right off tbh

I'm pretty sure that under the Price Marking laws that this is an illegal practice.

You're right, it's (partly) an EU directive of all things... http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/102/article/4/made

I wonder what, if any, the legal criteria is for the size of the price ticket

There weren’t any, I looked ‘cos I was interested in a Strat. 

Seems to be a new strategy as there were prices last time I visited.