5% overwound pickups

Sporky

Alegree said:

one of the two variables that go into the tone creation of a pickup

So it's only number of turns and magnet material that matter? 

Alegree

Sporky said:

Alegree said:

one of the two variables that go into the tone creation of a pickup

So it's only number of turns and magnet material that matter? 

No.
The coil (winds, shape, length, resistance, wire gauge, insulation etc)
and
Magnetic charge at string (magnet type, magnet transfer method, magnet size, magnet shape etc)

normula1

So apart from The coil (winds, shape, length, resistance, wire gauge, insulation etc), 
Magnetic charge at string (magnet type, magnet transfer method, magnet size, magnet shape etc) what did the Roman's fo for us?

thegummy

Alegree said:

Sporky said:

Alegree said:

one of the two variables that go into the tone creation of a pickup

So it's only number of turns and magnet material that matter? 

No.
The coil (winds, shape, length, resistance, wire gauge, insulation etc)
and
Magnetic charge at string (magnet type, magnet transfer method, magnet size, magnet shape etc)

Surely if 2 pickups are identical in all those other variables but one has 5% more winds, aren't we talking such miniscule levels of difference in sound that are borderline imperceptible?

Maybe not, I don't know.

Would you ever sell 2 types of pickups with that kind of difference or would it not be worth it?

When a company sells 2 pickups and one is said to be a hotter version of the other, what kind of percentage difference are they talking there?

RiftAmps

I vote that it doesn’t make as much difference as 10 hours of practice would.

IvisonGuitars

hotpickups said:

thermionic said:

Making good use of the things that we wind
Things that the everyday folks leave behind

Are you guys winding me up

Na, we’re just taking the P.........90.

hotpickups

miserneil said:

hotpickups said:

thermionic said:

Making good use of the things that we wind
Things that the everyday folks leave behind

Are you guys winding me up

Na, we’re just taking the P.........90.

Not to worry, I'm not phased

Sporky

Alegree said:

Sporky said:

Alegree said:

one of the two variables that go into the tone creation of a pickup

So it's only number of turns and magnet material that matter? 

No.
The coil (winds, shape, length, resistance, wire gauge, insulation etc)
and
Magnetic charge at string (magnet type, magnet transfer method, magnet size, magnet shape etc)

Ah, gotcha. 

I'd say that's a lot more than two variables.

Funkfingers

Oh, the tension.

The thickness of the insulation coating on the copper wire.

Whether the pickup has a metal baseplate or not. The Gibson P100 has no metal baseplate. The Seymour Duncan STKP-1 does. This may explain why, in my humble opinion, the Duncan Stack sucks less than the Gibson one. 

flying_pie

Alegree said:

Sporky said:

Alegree said:

one of the two variables that go into the tone creation of a pickup

So it's only number of turns and magnet material that matter? 

No.
The coil (winds, shape, length, resistance, wire gauge, insulation etc)
and
Magnetic charge at string (magnet type, magnet transfer method, magnet size, magnet shape etc)

Don't forget that the biggest variable is... 

The description/branding. 


I honestly reckon you could sell the same pickup in different covers with different descriptions and a lot of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference. 

Funkfingers

Seymour Duncan SSL-4 Quarter Pound for Stratocaster ... meet Seymour Duncan SJAG-3 Quarter Pound for Jaguar.

thegummy

flying_pie said:

Alegree said:

Sporky said:

Alegree said:

one of the two variables that go into the tone creation of a pickup

So it's only number of turns and magnet material that matter? 

No.
The coil (winds, shape, length, resistance, wire gauge, insulation etc)
and
Magnetic charge at string (magnet type, magnet transfer method, magnet size, magnet shape etc)

Don't forget that the biggest variable is... 

The description/branding. 


I honestly reckon you could sell the same pickup in different covers with different descriptions and a lot of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference. 

This has been done successfully so many times in other areas that you're almost definitely right.

soma1975

Alegree said:

mart said:

About 5% difference I’d say.

Not when the wind only contributes about 50% to the overall sound of the pickup.

Ahh but if you're in the middle position that's 2 pickups!

hotpickups

flying_pie said:

Alegree said:

Sporky said:

Alegree said:

one of the two variables that go into the tone creation of a pickup

So it's only number of turns and magnet material that matter? 

No.
The coil (winds, shape, length, resistance, wire gauge, insulation etc)
and
Magnetic charge at string (magnet type, magnet transfer method, magnet size, magnet shape etc)

Don't forget that the biggest variable is... 

The description/branding. 


I honestly reckon you could sell the same pickup in different covers with different descriptions and a lot of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference. 

I feel that too tbh

Alegree

I'm in agreement, there's a ton of snake oil in vintage recreations that have more or less negligible differences between brands.

That's why I steer clear of vintage and do wildly different pickups model to model.

normula1

Slightly off topic, but given the number of pickup winders who claim to have inspected / repaired several vintage PAFs and now have the secret recipe, they can't be that reliable

Boromedic

I think the issue with PAFs and the secret sauce is that they were made so inconsistently by Gibson that there is no one correct PAF. They weren't anticipating future buyers salivating over period correct plastics, wire, spacers, magnets etc. they just made them with whatever was bought in, on machines with variable speeds due to the poor factory electric supply. Hence the variations between different boutique winders.

Some people lose their minds over it all, I think a decent set of pickups are definitely worth it but, like all interests it's diminishing returns and marginal gains when you get to the (ridiculously priced) high end stuff. Still what would we have to talk about if we all agreed?!

richardhomer

Boromedic said:

Some people lose their minds over it all, I think a decent set of pickups are definitely worth it but, like all interests it's diminishing returns and marginal gains when you get to the (ridiculously priced) high end stuff.

Agreed - I doubt the difference between two different makes of PAF style pick-ups is beyond that which could be reproduced by slightly redialling the amp.

I remember playing three early to mid-60s Strats back to back through a clean amp. There was a significant tonal difference between them - though they all sounded like ‘good’ Strats.

Boromedic

Yeah I reckon you're bang on there, slight eq tweak and bingo, same sound. I think it's a case of finding one you like the most really, but therein lies the rub, how can you test them all?!

Plus how can you remember the tone you had from one pickup to the next? Too much time in between unless you record them and control all other variables which is damn hard! The number of times I've left my amp and pedals setup, had an awesome tone raging all night. Plugged back in the next morning having not touched anything and thought, shit WTF is that awful noise!! Having said that maybe tone has a direct correlation with real ale consumption?