Sitting in your car with the engine running.

Garthy

ICBM said:

Garthy said:

You aren't going to burn much fuel at tick over with no load, not that I'm excusing although if my engine is cold I'll leave it on to warm up. Does your car have stop/start? If not it's always cheaper to idle at the lights.

No, no stop-start.

It's not cheaper to idle if you're going to be stopped for a minute or more. I have proved that reasonably convincingly by driving for one month without doing, and one month with, because I'm a bit OCD about this sort of thing .

The cost of a starter motor buys a lot of fuel especially so if you have to pay for fitting.

ICBM

Garthy said:

The cost of a starter motor buys a lot of fuel especially so if you have to pay for fitting.

The starter didn't fail in my last car in the nine years I owned it, so it didn't cost me anything.

I actually turn the new car off a lot less, because unlike the old one which just turned the engine off, the new one powers down everything which can be quite a pain - especially at night, because it turns off the lights, which is not a good idea if you're stopped at traffic lights with no-one behind you...

The new car appears to be about 1-2mpg less efficient than the old one (same make/model, same engine) which may be a quirk of the way it calculates it, or to do with this, I'm not sure. I'm not certain I can be bothered to check though .

Nunogilberto

One of things that annoys me, and you see it a lot in the likes of fast food car parks as the OP has said. Normally a family in a Golf TDi that pulls up and eats their dinner, all the while putting out diesel smog...

mr-mac

EricTheWeary said:

So, I've parked up by MacDonalds to go for a wee and buy a drink. Parked next to a car ( Vauxhall something ) with a chap sat at the driver's seat, engine running. Come back to the car, checking stuff on my phone. So that's at least 20 minutes he has been sat there with the engine running. 
I notice people doing this from time to time, always seem to be a bunch of cars doing it at motorway service stations ( sitting in their cars for long periods with the motor running). 
Why do people do this? In the winter maybe to have the heater running but it's sunny today, he's got his windows open ( so presumably isn't using the air con)so he's just burning fuel and smelling his own diesel fumes. 
It's just a weird little phenomenon that I don't understand. 

Car engines use surprisingly little fuel idling.  Not as much as crazy eco types who demand cars that stop at junctions demand.  In fact that system only exists because the test has a lot of stopped time you wouldn't see in real world so helps their published figures.  In real world it uses no less fuel and poss a little more fuel.  But adds loads of wear to components.

if you worked out how many hours a car could idle on a tank you'd realise amount of fuel burned and emissions created were so little its crazy. 

mr-mac

Nunogilberto said:

One of things that annoys me, and you see it a lot in the likes of fast food car parks as the OP has said. Normally a family in a Golf TDi that pulls up and eats their dinner, all the while putting out diesel smog...

something wrong with their engine then.  My oil burner doesn't sit creating any smog/clouds at all.  Even from cold it idles totally clear exhaust.  It's speeding up when a diesel overfuels that causes the emissions so yes in towns when lots of start stop it can create more emissions but shouldn't really sitting in a car park.   unless, as i say, there is something well wrong with engine.

mr-mac

ICBM said:

Garthy said:

The cost of a starter motor buys a lot of fuel especially so if you have to pay for fitting.

The starter didn't fail in my last car in the nine years I owned it, so it didn't cost me anything.

I actually turn the new car off a lot less, because unlike the old one which just turned the engine off, the new one powers down everything which can be quite a pain - especially at night, because it turns off the lights, which is not a good idea if you're stopped at traffic lights with no-one behind you...

The new car appears to be about 1-2mpg less efficient than the old one (same make/model, same engine) which may be a quirk of the way it calculates it, or to do with this, I'm not sure. I'm not certain I can be bothered to check though .

Forget the calculation on screen they are notoriously bad.  Only way to really check is brim to brim and divide miles done by litres added.  

the avg mpg etc can be useful indicator on driving style or a noticrable drop in what screen shows can indicate a problem etc.

Dominic

We like to drive to the Seaside and park facing the Sea .We always take a nice flask of tea and some shortbread made with real butter.We put a nice Tartan rug over our laps and stare out to sea for hours.Sometimes we listen to the wireless for a bit.
  We never leave the engine running to spoil that bracing Sea air but we never get out of the car either.

Lestratcaster

I will admit I used and still do this, had a diesel before and for shortish trips to the supermarket once I parked up I would leave it running for a few minutes to keep it warm for just a bit longer as its supposed to be bad to not let diesel engines get to running temperature. Since then I've switched to petrol but I still have it running for about 5 minutes after I've parked. I also get paranoid my battery will die if I put the radio on and turn the engine off, but I've charged my phone for 30 minutes whilst the engine was off no issues!

EricTheWeary

mr-mac said:

EricTheWeary said:

So, I've parked up by MacDonalds to go for a wee and buy a drink. Parked next to a car ( Vauxhall something ) with a chap sat at the driver's seat, engine running. Come back to the car, checking stuff on my phone. So that's at least 20 minutes he has been sat there with the engine running. 
I notice people doing this from time to time, always seem to be a bunch of cars doing it at motorway service stations ( sitting in their cars for long periods with the motor running). 
Why do people do this? In the winter maybe to have the heater running but it's sunny today, he's got his windows open ( so presumably isn't using the air con)so he's just burning fuel and smelling his own diesel fumes. 
It's just a weird little phenomenon that I don't understand. 

Car engines use surprisingly little fuel idling.  Not as much as crazy eco types who demand cars that stop at junctions demand.  In fact that system only exists because the test has a lot of stopped time you wouldn't see in real world so helps their published figures.  In real world it uses no less fuel and poss a little more fuel.  But adds loads of wear to components.

if you worked out how many hours a car could idle on a tank you'd realise amount of fuel burned and emissions created were so little its crazy. 

I understand that it probably makes very little difference to their overall fuel consumption ( I think the stop start engine I had on my previous car had a claimed fuel saving of 5% which is something but not a massive something). I just don’t understand why people sit in a car with the engine on for long periods of time for no apparent reason - is there a benefit that I’m not getting. I’ve driven knackered old cars and worried about the battery going but that’s not what I’m seeing; maybe they think they’re not getting out of the car so why would they bother and they think I’m a bit daft if I do turn the engine off. 

Legionreturns

It's not really about fuel consumption. It's about chucking out fumes when you don't need to be.

It's bloody selfish! 

Nunogilberto

mr-mac said:

Nunogilberto said:

One of things that annoys me, and you see it a lot in the likes of fast food car parks as the OP has said. Normally a family in a Golf TDi that pulls up and eats their dinner, all the while putting out diesel smog...

something wrong with their engine then.  My oil burner doesn't sit creating any smog/clouds at all.  Even from cold it idles totally clear exhaust.  It's speeding up when a diesel overfuels that causes the emissions so yes in towns when lots of start stop it can create more emissions but shouldn't really sitting in a car park.   unless, as i say, there is something well wrong with engine.

I’ll rephrase it then - cars sat there with their engines running, stinking away and filling the air with catalysed diesel fumes.

ICBM

mr-mac said:

Forget the calculation on screen they are notoriously bad.  Only way to really check is brim to brim and divide miles done by litres added.

That’s what I did with the old car, which is why I can’t really be bothered this time given that it’s less of a good idea to turn it off .

djspecialist

Taxi drivers occasionally sit for ten minutes or more with their engine running, waiting for a collection in my street.  At 6 in the morning.  Bastards.

Guitar_Slinger

Years ago I watched an old American delivery driver training video. It was made in the early 80s and even back then, told drivers to switch off while delivering.  There was even a Sheriff John Bunnell-type saying that 30 years of stop-starting cars on the force never did his starter motors any harm.

crunchman

Legionreturns said:

It's not really about fuel consumption. It's about chucking out fumes when you don't need to be.

It's bloody selfish! 

Very true.  If it's your own car it's stupid as well because it's costing you money.

I'm pretty sure that I've read that if you are stationary for more than 30 seconds, you will save money by turning off the engine.  It's the ones who sit there for 5 minutes at a level crossing while they are waiting for 2 trains that really annoy me though.

Emp_Fab

“Because a lot of people are dicks” is the correct answer.

Take yesterday...  I’m driving past Ross-on-Wye on the A40...  signs start appearing warning that the right hand lane is closed after the roundabout.  I move to the left lane.  More signs... bigger signs...  then big fuck off slap you in the face signs with big red warnings on.

Get to the roundabout where there is a big roadworks lorry parked in the right lane and a queue of morons stuck behind it trying to get into the left lane.

ICBM

Which are the morons? All the twits who insist on getting into the left lane half a mile too soon simply double the length of the traffic jam by occupying only half the available road space. If everyone stayed in their lane right up to the blockage and then merged alternately in turn, it would work perfectly. But it doesn’t, because everyone in the left lane becomes a self-righteous dick who thinks the right lane are ‘queue jumping’ and won’t let them in.

You get a similar thing on slip roads in heavy traffic. The right method is to use the whole length of the slip road and join at the far end, but people won’t because the drivers on the carriageway then won’t let them on... so they come to a stop right at the start of it, which then produces a blockage which goes back up to the roundabout and causes gridlock.

EricTheWeary

Emp_Fab said:

“Because a lot of people are dicks” is the correct answer.

Take yesterday...  I’m driving past Ross-on-Wye on the A40...  signs start appearing warning that the right hand lane is closed after the roundabout.  I move to the left lane.  More signs... bigger signs...  then big fuck off slap you in the face signs with big red warnings on.

Get to the roundabout where there is a big roadworks lorry parked in the right lane and a queue of morons stuck behind it trying to get into the left lane.

ICBM said:

Which are the morons? All the twits who insist on getting into the left lane half a mile too soon simply double the length of the traffic jam by occupying only half the available road space. If everyone stayed in their lane right up to the blockage and then merged alternately in turn, it would work perfectly. But it doesn’t, because everyone in the left lane becomes a self-righteous dick who thinks the right lane are ‘queue jumping’ and won’t let them in.

You get a similar thing on slip roads in heavy traffic. The right method is to use the whole length of the slip road and join at the far end, but people won’t because the drivers on the carriageway then won’t let them on... so they come to a stop right at the start of it, which then produces a blockage which goes back up to the roundabout and causes gridlock.

My journey home now includes a bit of the M5 that effectively goes from 4 lanes to 1 ( due to split to M42 plus roadworks) over  a relatively short distance and it's like a daily battle of wits. If people zippered in it would be faster for everyone but they don't. 

Rocker

sev112 said:

I can’t play my radio / music in my Peugeot without the engine running - it switches off after 5 mins without the engine on

That might be one of the hidden benefits of driving a Peugeot.......

57Deluxe

Dominic said:

We like to drive to the Seaside and park facing the Sea .We always take a nice flask of tea and some shortbread made with real butter.We put a nice Tartan rug over our laps and stare out to sea for hours.Sometimes we listen to the wireless for a bit.
  We never leave the engine running to spoil that bracing Sea air but we never get out of the car either.

in the pouring rain...