strange selling practices on here

impmann

I get what @TTony is saying 100%. I've been here since the Music Radar days - unfortunately due to outside interests plus living a million miles from most of my family and a lot of my friends, the meet ups have been sporadic at best.

I've met a lot of great folks through this website/forum - and I do feel there is a community spirit (although some care in the community is needed for some...). The freeloader/traders come and go - as they do on any forum. Some of them cause trouble - ok, a lot of them do... I'll come to that - but as a *user* I can always just think "fuck you" and ignore them...

I've not had any real problems with any of my dealings on the classified - yes, a couple of folks have messed me around with paying for things, another who tried to claim something as busted when it was user error and someone who couldn't collect something within an agreed timeframe. All were resolved... eventually. But the vast majority of guys I deal with are stand up folks... and I buy and sell a lot of gear. I'm a magpie...

Troublemaking. There's a growing sense of "entitlement" here and elsewhere - everyone is "entitled" to an opinion, but expressing that opinion is optional and not everyone wants to hear it. So think before typing - not easy, and I know I'm as guilty as the next person... There is no such thing as free speech - and there's no such thing as a free lunch. This is not 'public property', this is owned by a group of individuals... don't like the rules? Fuck off and play somewhere else.

I've moderated forums (remember the Yahoogroups thing... yep, them) back in the day when it truly was the wild west. It was hard work keeping the peace between folks, usually arguing over a triviality that everyone will have forgotten in 48hrs. Or vehemently agreeing with each other to the point of causing a near (virtual) fight - just using different semantics. So my respect and thanks go to the team here... and for the record, they do a grand job.

Just a thought for you... there comes a point where your enjoyment of something can be diminished by the actions of an idiot (or idiots) to the point where you can just say "I'm not doing this any more". I've seen it happen many times and the first to complain are usually those most vocal about how things aren't "right"... yet they won't put themselves out to take on the responsibility. I don't think any of us want that to happen here... so play nicely, chaps. Otherwise, I may actually have to do some work when I'm sat at my office desk rather than type out rambling bollocks on here...

Peace love and sausage rolls.

JezWynd

TTony said:

It matters because those people who just want to advertise and sell stuff are disproportionately responsible for the hassle that we have to deal with - whether its the shit ads, or advertising fakes, or over-bumping, or deleting content, or prompting the various "is this new guy legit?" PMs.

It matters because those are - disproportionately again - the ones who reply with a stream of abuse when we ask them to read, and abide by, the rules.

If that's the case then you need to take action.

I take your point about the community aspect but it's a fact that communities grow and expand in ways that you can't always control or define. Loading additional work onto the founders (esp. such onerous cr@p work) is unacceptable though. You need to find a way to end it.

Fifty9

impmann said:

Bridgehouse said:

To whomever lol trolled my post - I’m sure @TTony and @digitalscream would be interested to know why you think it’s funny that they have to stump up money so that the fretboard can continue and you can enjoy it for free.

Why not man up and actually comment on it rather than hiding behind an anonymous lol? 

Cunts are everywhere, mate.

So are people with fat fingers/thumbs.

i use my phone for this forum 99% of the time and the vast majority of my lol, wiz & wows are pure chance as hit them accidentally as I’m scrolling down a thread!

mli3

Are we all getting a bit too sensitive about LOL's ? If someone LOL'd me I'd just assume they had a chuckle about something in my post, or a joke i tried to make or other some such. Also, and more importantly, I wouldn't actually give a f*ck. 
Shouldn't we all just simmer down a bit and move on ? 

Jack_

mli3 said:

Are we all getting a bit too sensitive about LOL's ? If someone LOL'd me I'd just assume they had a chuckle about something in my post, or a joke i tried to make or other some such. Also, and more importantly, I wouldn't actually give a f*ck. 
Shouldn't we all just simmer down a bit and move on ? 

Nah, LOL you mate.

mli3

  

Johnnyseven

mli3 said:nice

Are we all getting a bit too sensitive about LOL's ? If someone LOL'd me I'd just assume they had a chuckle about something in my post, or a joke i tried to make or other some such. Also, and more importantly, I wouldn't actually give a f*ck. 
Shouldn't we all just simmer down a bit and move on ? 

My mum thinks LOL means 'Lots of Love'. Just think of it as that and everything will be fine.

CountryDave

As a relative newbie (2 years in Sept) and longer time lurker, this forum has been invaluable in some instances. 

The advice and wealth of knowledge from a collective group of people is enormous and also in general, very respectful.  I'm sure there are many moments where more knowledgeable people think 'D'oh!, do you really not know that?' in response to a question/comment.  However I have yet to see that come across in any comments. (I'm sure there will be examples somewhere).

I have bought and sold a few things in the never ending quest for sonic nirvana and been lucky enough to meet some of the fine people I dealt with and to a man they have been decent and reliable.

This forum is great and is generally my first (sometimes only) port of call when checking in on the internet.  The admins do a great job, but as has been stated above, wherever you get more than one person anywhere, there is always the potential for a difference of opinion.  Add in the difficulty in interpretation that text brings over actually speaking to someone - where a comment typed in jest/with a humorous intent can be read as being offensive/downright rude - and there is always the potential for disagreement.

As for the suggestion of a fee, if necessary I'd be happy to pay to be part of this.  Just a thought though, if a fee based model is to succeed in attracting new people, it may be worth giving a free trial period to allow new members the time to really appreciate the breadth of knowledge available.

vale

haven't followed this thread since the day it went up as it has become a bit of a monster, but checked in today & read the last page where the mention of a fee popped up.

the first thought i had of a good way to address a potential fee structure & the ongoing 'classifieds issue' (for some not all) is to have some sort of a voluntary 'put a penny in the fretboard hat' option, which both sides of a transaction could contribute to each time they complete a successful transaction.

these could show up somewhere on the site as icons (like kills on the side of fighter aces planes).

this would neatly combine a way of generating a little (voluntary) revenue from that section of the forum which seems to attract most controversy (& accusations of freeloading) with a (voluntary) scheme by which you could immediately tell if someone there has good form or history.

maybe a voluntary contribution of £1 per transaction that you can add to your paypal transaction when you complete your sale?
purely voluntary but the incentive to participate would be to generate a good report card for yourself in that section (which has a value) & to put something back into the forum if you get a good deal.

it wouldn't address bad behaviour (for which there is already a feedback thread if required), it also would perhaps disadvantage people who don't sell or buy often. they may be good forum contributors but appear to have a low dealing record. but perhaps that would be offset by their fret count (which is already in place & clear for all to see).

something to consder maybe?

Boromedic

Dare I say it, but I think on TGP you have to be a supporting member to post any ads. Maybe that could be an idea to help fund the forum a bit rather than pay per transaction? You can pay month to month for a small fee and have a little badge as suggested above to show your support level? Once you're done trading then don't renew the next month. Just an idea...

Bridgehouse

I don’t think the monetising of the classifieds is the issue.

The stuff me and @TTony are talking about are the large number of members who join just to post in the classifieds and cause the admins a lot of hassle when asked to post as per the rules, but contribute squat all to the rest of the forum. 

Its not the money contribution - it’s the lack of community involvement. Look at the recent Jam party in Huddersfield and the fact that it’s not got enough interest. Symptomatic of lots of people coming here to get what they want and nothing more. The classifieds are where the majority of this happens.

Bridgehouse

Oh, and before anyone says “that’s just the internet innit” - yes, I know. Doesn’t mean I can’t call it out as being shite.

darthed1981

Bridgehouse said:

Oh, and before anyone says “that’s just the internet innit” - yes, I know. Doesn’t mean I can’t call it out as being shite.

Well, on top of that, the internet is just groups of people collecting together on their computers.

They can choose to be decent or choose to be arses.  We have some posters who are more prime arse than Japanese rump steak.

TFB has many very pleasant members I've met at the jams etc, and I think we all appreciate this place a lot.

Still plenty of time for people to sign up for Huddersfield, if we fill it up then maybe we can turn the last couple of weeks around into something positive ...

Imagine a poster here saying "Your Fretboard Needs You" but without the guy who invented concentration camps on it...

GoldenEraGuitars

mli3 said:

Are we all getting a bit too sensitive about LOL's ? If someone LOL'd me I'd just assume they had a chuckle about something in my post, or a joke i tried to make or other some such. Also, and more importantly, I wouldn't actually give a f*ck. 
Shouldn't we all just simmer down a bit and move on ? 

Living in Northern Ireland, it’s quite amusing to see “LOL” at the top of every lodges banner as they march.

LOL, to a Protestant here means “loyal orange lodge”

Boromedic

Bridgehouse said:

I don’t think the monetising of the classifieds is the issue.

The stuff me and @TTony are talking about are the large number of members who join just to post in the classifieds and cause the admins a lot of hassle when asked to post as per the rules, but contribute squat all to the rest of the forum. 

Its not the money contribution - it’s the lack of community involvement. Look at the recent Jam party in Huddersfield and the fact that it’s not got enough interest. Symptomatic of lots of people coming here to get what they want and nothing more. The classifieds are where the majority of this happens.

I hear you mate, and I know it's probably not a solution to the community thing. However if you had to contribute a bit financially to post ads would it not prevent some of the joining just to sell issues? I know it's not the whole solution but could help.

I wish I could get more involved but geographically at the mo I just can't. However next year I'm definitely going to be attending some of the jams and shows fingers crossed, hoping to put faces to names and hang out with like minded cretins! Maybe it's just a phase at the moment and it will shift back to something more community like soon. Or could it be a side effect of a growing membership? I still see lots of supportive chatter on and off topic so it's still there in some senses. 

horse

I've seen the lack of sign ups for the Huddersfield event taken as a lack of community spirit a few times, and I'm not sure that is correct really. I think you can have online community spirit without extending it to face to face activities.

There's also a huge range of reasons why people might not sign up - introversion, distance, availability on the date / times, whether the format appeals or not, fear of being upstaged, whether you have other regular musical opportunities which already satisfy you more etc.

I suppose what I'm saying is that not being fussed about a particular type of event isn't necessarily a symptom of a lack of online community spirit, or gratitude for its provision - we're all different.

Bridgehouse

horse said:

I've seen the lack of sign ups for the Huddersfield event taken as a lack of community spirit a few times, and I'm not sure that is correct really. I think you can have online community spirit without extending it to face to face activities.

There's also a huge range of reasons why people might not sign up - introversion, distance, availability on the date / times, whether the format appeals or not, fear of being upstaged, whether you have other regular musical opportunities which already satisfy you more etc.

I suppose what I'm saying is that not being fussed about a particular type of event isn't necessarily a symptom of a lack of online community spirit, or gratitude for its provision - we're all different.

True - I was using it as one example. There are lots of other examples of recent threads where either the opinions expressed by some or the overall attitude is one of “take take” rather than any give at all. 

horse

Yeah, I get that Mark - just picking up on some of the frustration around lack of sign ups - to me if the event is right for people (and they know about / understand it), they'll sign up

stickyfiddle

I don't see charging for the classifieds as being a great option. It'll just decrease the rate of new signups and piss people off. 

As for the community thing, I don't think we've lost that among the "regular crowd" who show up for events etc, but as the forum has grown the regular crowd hasn't got as much bigger, so as a proportion the regulars are small proportion of the whole. 

As for Huddersfield specifically, I can't make it as I'm in the wrong country, but tbh even if I was in London, I'm not sure I would have made the drive cos it's a hecking long way. I do wonder if having more local events is a better way to get more people involved, even if it means a lot of us will never meet in a single place at the same time. 

FWIW there's half a chance we'll be back in the UK for a couple of years, in which case the first thing I will want to do is organise a gearfest!

Bridgehouse

horse said:

Yeah, I get that Mark - just picking up on some of the frustration around lack of sign ups - to me if the event is right for people (and they know about / understand it), they'll sign up

Part of the frustration will be the buzz from the southern Jam - really good event and we really wanted more people to experience how confidence boosting they can be.

Agreed tho - you can’t make people go.