Line 6 Helix Sounds Terrible?

meltedbuzzbox

@hubobulous I thought the h9 was quite straight forward but saying that it does have decent presets out of the box. 
I found empress stuff pretty straight forward too. I've never played a chase bliss pedal or a strymon. 

The helix is all about familiarity. I know before I even strum a chord to go change the microphone and the hi-cut when trying a new amp. 
I've never seen a Hi cut option on an amp, its not immediately obvious (and rarely covered online) to roll that back. I always feel like it leaves a harsh clipping residue to the sound. Maybe FRFR fixes that (doesn't help with monitors though)?

gibsongretschfan

meltedbuzzbox said:

gibsongretschfan said:

Teetonetal said:

gibsongretschfan said:

If Helix sounds terrible then it’s user error. 

If you prefer something else then that’s fine

if you’re using the wrong ohm headphones then see my first point

Not if you are demiong helix in a shop, trying to find out if it's for you and going for the headphone out as that's what you think you will use.

That's exactly what I did and it sounded shit. It took a very kind shop lending me one before I had enough time with it to work out how to make it sound good through headphones. I think it's incredible, but depending on your use case, it's not always instant win.

There needs to be some buyer responsibility though. As simple as the user interface is, Helix and other modellers are very complicated bits of gear. Luckily the internet is absolutely full of advice, experiences and manuals. Doing some research before going to try something like this is an absolute must and would very quickly have turned up the headphone amp impedance issue (well, it isn’t an issue but you know what I mean)

if all all else fails I have one rule about gear I either can’t play first or don’t have 4 months to learn before I buy:

did is someone else make it sound good?

if the answer is yes then I’ll be able to make it sound good

do you need to go through that level of faff to try a pedal or an amp?
No you don't. 

Its so easy to dismiss/insult someones opinion by claiming user error. 

I honestly don’t go near any bit of gear without listening to four hundred demos of them. Then usually it only takes the right demo to make me know it will work.

guitars I usually need to try them but if not YouTube demos it is.

even phone recordings can tell a lot if you listen to enough of them. You can start to get a feel for it

gibsongretschfan

hubobulous said:

@gibsongretschfan - got to agree. By its very nature the Helix is a complicated piece of kit. It’s a mistake to think that an excellent UI means immediate gratification I think. For me, the brilliance of the UI is truly realised when you understand the tweaks required to get the sounds you want.

Of course, the UI means that diving in is made massively easier, but I agree that when spending cash on a piece of kit like this, you need to invest time.

Another unit similar in terms of requiring patience is the SY300. Once I’ve got my head around that and it’s in a Helix loop, I’ll be quite excited to see what I can come up with.

I’ve had Helix 2 years and it’s still making me go WTF every few weeks

robinbowes

meltedbuzzbox said:

do you need to go through that level of faff to try a pedal or an amp?
No you don't. 

Its so easy to dismiss/insult someones opinion by claiming user error. 

It's not so much "user error" as a mismatch of user expectation.

The Helix models the whole signal chain, ie. pedal, amp, cab, mic. so there's a lot more to get to grips with. If you don't want that "level of faff" then modellers are not for you.

Also, because the Helix models the whole chain then it will not sound or feel the same as a valve amp in a room. If you expect it to sound or feel the same then you will be disappointed. If this is important to you then modellers are not for you.

For me, my Helix has been a revelation. I've created a few presets to suit my needs and I just turn up, plug in, and sound great, and have no heavy amps/cabs to lug around.

R.

ChuckManual

Death To Presets.

sweepy

ChuckManual said:

Death To Presets.

They are as bad on Fractal products if that is any help

Jetfire

I find it a piece of equipment you NEED to play via Frfr or proper speaker first and then use headphones for quiet jams.... which is kinda what youd do with a real amp...

firepaulmusic

meltedbuzzbox said:

gibsongretschfan said:

Teetonetal said:

gibsongretschfan said:

If Helix sounds terrible then it’s user error. 

If you prefer something else then that’s fine

if you’re using the wrong ohm headphones then see my first point

Not if you are demiong helix in a shop, trying to find out if it's for you and going for the headphone out as that's what you think you will use.

That's exactly what I did and it sounded shit. It took a very kind shop lending me one before I had enough time with it to work out how to make it sound good through headphones. I think it's incredible, but depending on your use case, it's not always instant win.

There needs to be some buyer responsibility though. As simple as the user interface is, Helix and other modellers are very complicated bits of gear. Luckily the internet is absolutely full of advice, experiences and manuals. Doing some research before going to try something like this is an absolute must and would very quickly have turned up the headphone amp impedance issue (well, it isn’t an issue but you know what I mean)

if all all else fails I have one rule about gear I either can’t play first or don’t have 4 months to learn before I buy:

did is someone else make it sound good?

if the answer is yes then I’ll be able to make it sound good

do you need to go through that level of faff to try a pedal or an amp?
No you don't. 

Its so easy to dismiss/insult someones opinion by claiming user error. 

I can usually get a decent sound out of gear and am pretty experienced at going DI with speaker sims etc. I couldn't get a decent sound out of the Helix. AX8 was a different experience altogether, a couple of hours and all my gigging presets were done, haven't changed it since...

Glaw343

I have activated a trial of Helix native and I've had a play around with that in pro tools for the past couple of hours, there definitely must have been something wrong when I tried the Helix LT, as mentioned by people previously in this thread this could be to do with the impedance of my headphones, I've contacted Line 6 so hopefully I will hear back from them pretty soon.

Jetfire

What speakers are you using with your protools setup?

robinbowes

firepaulmusic said:

I can usually get a decent sound out of gear and am pretty experienced at going DI with speaker sims etc. I couldn't get a decent sound out of the Helix. AX8 was a different experience altogether, a couple of hours and all my gigging presets were done, haven't changed it since...

I find that very hard to believe. I would have to try quite hard to get a bad sound out of mine.

meltedbuzzbox

robinbowes said:

firepaulmusic said:

I can usually get a decent sound out of gear and am pretty experienced at going DI with speaker sims etc. I couldn't get a decent sound out of the Helix. AX8 was a different experience altogether, a couple of hours and all my gigging presets were done, haven't changed it since...

I find that very hard to believe. I would have to try quite hard to get a bad sound out of mine.

give me 3 minutes with yours ;-)

robinbowes

meltedbuzzbox said:

robinbowes said:

firepaulmusic said:

I can usually get a decent sound out of gear and am pretty experienced at going DI with speaker sims etc. I couldn't get a decent sound out of the Helix. AX8 was a different experience altogether, a couple of hours and all my gigging presets were done, haven't changed it since...

I find that very hard to believe. I would have to try quite hard to get a bad sound out of mine.

give me 3 minutes with yours ;-)

Heh

Wazmeister

gibsongretschfan said:

If Helix sounds terrible then it’s user error. 

If you prefer something else then that’s fine

if you’re using the wrong ohm headphones then see my first point

A brilliant post.

No, a really brilliant post.

The truth.

Glaw343

Jetfire said:

What speakers are you using with your protools setup?

I'm using the same headphones I would be using for practicing, seeing as the headphone out of the actual helix doesn't play nice with my headphones I thought I can use the amp in my interface and helix native so that I can get the full effect of helix with the same headphones I used on the other units to compare them, sounds much better already, I haven't really done any deep editing, just changed a couple of the effects and experimented with different amp/cab combinations etc so  don't think I'm getting the full potential of the sound but I've got another 14 days of the helix native trial to see what I can come up with

Glaw343

Wazmeister said:

gibsongretschfan said:

If Helix sounds terrible then it’s user error. 

If you prefer something else then that’s fine

if you’re using the wrong ohm headphones then see my first point

A brilliant post.

No, a really brilliant post.

The truth.

just to clarify, I never doubted that it was user error, hence the thread asking what I did wrong lol, helix native with my audio interface which has a headphone amp that works better with my headphones is already a huge improvement hopefully line 6 can shed some light on what impedance the headphones need to be for the Helix Floor

Sporky

Digital Igloo posted on page 2. I think you need over 150 ohms. 

Wazmeister

I must say my Helix sounded very good with headphones. 

Sporky

I don't have a problem with it and my Shure SRH1540s, and they're only 46 ohms. I should compare with some of my other headphones.

That's not to say that there isn't an issue for other people or with other low impedance headphones.

Wazmeister

To help the op and others, I was recommended these last year by someone on here, and they are very good indeed;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0006NL5SM/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO Studio Headphones - 250 Ohm