Tokai Love Rock vs Gibson Les Paul - what to get?

Simon_M

The more I’ve read this forum, the more I’ve seen people who really love their Tokai guitars. I had assumed, perhaps mistakenly, that Tokai’s Gibson ‘clones’ were inferior in quality but there seems to be a few people who rate the Tokais very highly.

So that in mind, if I was looking for a Les Paul type guitar (on the second hand market) and can’t afford Gibson money, would Tokai be my best starting point (as opposed to Epiphone) and what sort of age/model should I be looking at?

Funkfingers

Eighties, made in Japan, Tokai Love Rock? Yes. 

Recent Tokai? No comment. Not tried one. Not felt any urge to try one either.

John_P

From what I’ve seen the good mij tokai models are into the same price region as Gibson’s if you look at used models.  If you’ve been down the Gibson route then they are probdbly great guitars but if not then I’d have the curiosity that maybe the Gibson is better.  
Try as many LP’s as you can to get a feel for the variations and quality and then look out for a bargain - there are some bargain used LP’s out there.  

designerseye88

My recommendation would be a Greco super real 1000 and upwards. During 1980-1981 they were made with Dry Z pickups (have Z stamped in ink on underside of the pickup). The guitars are very highly regarded. 

Boromedic

If you don't have the funds for a used Gibson I doubt you will have the money for the lauded Tokais of the 70's and 80's. The newer ones are trading off that old reputation somewhat and aren't the ones used as a comparison usually. The early 90's Burnys, Greco's and Tokais are decent guitars and there are experienced folk on here who can guide you on them. Still think they're up in the £6-700 mark these days mostly though.

The 90's ones I played are nice but not Gibson nice imo, YMMV and all that. Not sure if your budget stretches to this Stork, but a great LP for a good price:

http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/128730/fs-multiple-guitars/p1

baldy

What is your budget ?

Danielsguitars

once you get into dry z greco's it get expensive, they're normally on egf 1200, I'd look at an egf 800 and change the pickups, they're all the same construction it's just the pickups they used put the price up, the model number is how much they were in yen when new

egf 1000 had dimarzio if i remember rightly as i had one years ago, i bought that over a gibson

if you can find a lighter weight mint collection absolutely worth the money, I've still got an 89 mint collection 59 1000d, the d is for Seymour Duncan alnico 2 pros which i had rewound by shed pickups 

sweepy

Gibson every time but budget for someone to sort the frets out if you buy a Tribute 

Rebar

Made in Japan Tokais from LS150 and above are hard to beat, but are approaching Gibson money. Ni fret edge binding until you reach the very high end (LS 320, etc). Check out the Tokai forum and, as others have suggested, try out as many as you can. 

guitargeek62

Any of the MIJ Tokais (et al.) that you can get for ~£500+ are going to be decent guitars and well worth the money.

John_A

designerseye88 said:

My recommendation would be a Greco super real 1000 and upwards. During 1980-1981 they were made with Dry Z pickups (have Z stamped in ink on underside of the pickup). The guitars are very highly regarded. 

A super real egf 1000 has dimarzio pickups, for Dry Zs you need a 1200

Greco EGF850 and up, or a 1979-82 Tokai LS80 are generally excellent, but there re a few duffers around too, earlier Greco's are VERY hit and miss, the later 'mint collection' Greco's are good too, but there are quite a range from cheap to expensive, and the more expensive ones are better

Burnys too, some great ones, but a lot of average ones too

Orville by Gibson are great guitars as well

I would nearly always choose a high end Japanese copy over a modern Gibson standard.

The new high end Tokai are great guitars too, but resale value isn't great, you would lose more then an equivalent Gibson 

rossi

I have read the post carefully and can definitely recommend the ESP  .

Simon_M

So my budget is kind of non-existent at the moment in that I haven't set one! If I want a 1980s MIJ Tokai I'll save up for what they are going for on eBay. Just wanted to see what people thought.

I had a look at a few Greco's online and they may fit the bill too.

For the sake of discussion, lets say £850-1000.

horsehead

I echo peoples sentiments of trying as many LPs as you can to see what you like despite what's on the headstock....


However...

I've had 2 Tokais, 1 went in a deal but shouldn't have and the other is still with me as one of my 2 main guitars. Pickups did get changed but it is the best vibe Les Paul I've ever played. I'd recommend a Tokai every time

richardhomer

I recently played a new Tokai - no idea which model - but it was £1000.

Other than being very heavy, there was nothing really memorable about it. A used LP Tradional at similar money strikes me as a far better buy - and something you wouldn’t lose money on if you decided to move it on.

Phil_aka_Pip

John_A said:

Burnys too, some great ones, but a lot of average ones too

Orville by Gibson are great guitars as well

I would nearly always choose a high end Japanese copy over a modern Gibson standard.

The new high end Tokai are great guitars too, but resale value isn't great, you would lose more then an equivalent Gibson 

Andy Latimer gets a good sound out of a Burny

"Gibson" on the headstock will usually get you a better price if you decide to sell it.

But hey, try as many as you can, decide what you like or don't like, then pick the one that suits you best.

Suits YOU Sir!

ESBlonde

Some of the Gibson budget models without the bling can be quite the sound engines. As with all Gibson guitars you need to kiss a few frogs! £500-800 for a Gibson makes them  viable consideration.

TA22GT

Tokai fan here but they aren't all golden. However in the price range you are considering the QC is usually good.

One thing in their favour is that there are closer steps moneywise between the models whereas with Gibson the difference between models can be quite an uplift.
It's worth going s/h with Tokai because someone else has taken the hit!

Schnozz

richardhomer said:

I recently played a new Tokai - no idea which model - but it was £1000.

Other than being very heavy, there was nothing really memorable about it. A used LP Tradional at similar money strikes me as a far better buy - and something you wouldn’t lose money on if you decided to move it on.

It was probably an LS128 in that price range

I prefer Bacchus' pickups to those of Tokai, but it's easier to find a Tokai 'Burst than it is a Bacchus and you should save £400 on a Gibson

Don't forget the Yamaha SG1000 and Boromedic's kindly mentioned my Seventy Seven, if you prefer something closer to 8lbs

Good hunting!

DrCornelius

For a shade over £1000 you may be able to get an early 'noughties' LP standard. I've bought 3 from that era 'blind' and they've all been spot on and you will get your money back if you shift it.

Ive also had older Tokais. Orville and Edwards models. Some were great some were very average so if you get a chance to try before you buy then definitely consider them. I picked up a late 80s Orville Custom with DiMarzios for about £750 that was really good.

baldy

If you are anywhere near Birmingham then The Little Guitar Shop are Tokai dealers.
They normally have new plus used Tokai"s.
They also have a used 1980 MIJ Yamaha Studio Lord in stock at the moment for £495

I have never played one but Yamaha are normally very good quality instruments for the money.
No idea what the pick ups sound like but at the price it wouldn"t be a problem to swap them if needed ?

Plus these new Tokai"s for £1,195