The Cheats Guide to getting a Rickenbacker Bass Sound on a Budget. Tips, Tricks ( Heated Debate).

OilCityPickups

Bridgehouse said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Bridgehouse said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Bridgehouse said:

@vale - look at what you have started now!! We have one of the most respected pickup winders there is making Ric bass-a-likes to try and answer this question once and for all..

You might just be a massive genius. 

Furiously CAD designing away today :-)

My suspenders are killing me!! How'd it go @TheGuitarWeasel? Do you have a bona Ric-a-like pickup?

Designed the parts yesterday, cutting them on the laser today, winding tomorrow. Patience Grasshopper!

I’m gonna struggle!!!

Will take pics as I build OK?

Bridgehouse

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Bridgehouse said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Bridgehouse said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Bridgehouse said:

@vale - look at what you have started now!! We have one of the most respected pickup winders there is making Ric bass-a-likes to try and answer this question once and for all..

You might just be a massive genius. 

Furiously CAD designing away today :-)

My suspenders are killing me!! How'd it go @TheGuitarWeasel? Do you have a bona Ric-a-like pickup?

Designed the parts yesterday, cutting them on the laser today, winding tomorrow. Patience Grasshopper!

I’m gonna struggle!!!

Will take pics as I build OK?

Oh ok then

vale

Funkfingers said:

A funny thing happened on the way to the forum.

https://soundcloud.com/nigelcherry/closer-to-the-fart

Listen for whether you can tell which - if any - of the noises are genuine Rickenbacker and which are fake. 

For any sounds that you consider to be fake, please indicate what instrument you believe was used to do the faking.

For reference, you are hearing Apple Logic Drummer, with occasional tweaks, through a short reverb algorithm. All bass guitars recorded using the same clean D.I. plug-in and - shock, horror - the same plectrum (where appropriate).

huge thanks for creating this head-to-head @Funkfingers  really interesting.

on first listen there didn't seem a huge difference between the two across two thirds of it (unless it's all P bass and you're teasing testing us). a few places where it seems suspiciously grunty and clangy that made me think i was listening to a ricky.

on second listen i got organised and took rough notes of those instance i thought were definitely ricky. so by default the rest then falls into either the p bass, or so little difference it may as well be a p bass.

my notes say:
0m19s to 0m43s def ricky.
1m49s to 2m06s def ricky.
run at end from 2m44s def ricky.

and there was a bit 1m00s to 1m30s where i got the impression you were quickly alternating between the two. but the switching maybe too quick for me to reach a definite decision on either entirely before it changed. but that was the impression i got from that section.

have no idea how that comapres to the notes you kept of what you actually did but would obviously be very interested to hear.

if i'm wildly off in all instances that would throw this thread right up in the air.
next thread 'how can i make my ricky sound like a precision on a budget...?'.
 

Bridgehouse said:

@vale - look at what you have started now!! We have one of the most respected pickup winders there is making Ric bass-a-likes to try and answer this question once and for all..

don't remember anything. never done nothing. slept all night. my mum will give you an alibi.

but that will make another 'very interesting' head-to-head thread. good luck @TheGuitarWeasel ;

Bridgehouse

@vale - look, look at what you did....

Funkfingers

vale said:

on first listen, there didn't seem a huge difference between the two across two thirds of it

Thank you. This was pretty much my point.

If you are struggling (or not bothered) to detect much difference with just exposed drums and bass guitar, how little are you going to care when the rest of a song arrangement is added? Many of the higher frequency details that help differentiate between bass guitar makes and models will be masked.

vale said:

on second listen, i got organised and took rough notes of those instance i thought were definitely ricky. so by default the rest then falls into either the p bass, or so little difference it may as well be a p bass.

Methinks that you were deceived by the Soundcloud background photograph. I knew that I should have used another image.

Me also thinks that you do not currently have access to a P Bass.

vale said:

my notes say:
0m19s to 0m43s def ricky.
1m49s to 2m06s def ricky.
run at end from 2m44s def ricky.

Half right. The Rick switches from neck PU, to both, to bridge PU. The other bass remains consistent.
Half right.
Completely right.

vale said:
there was a bit, 1m00s to 1m30s, where i got the impression you were quickly alternating between the two. but the switching maybe too quick for me to reach a definite decision on either entirely before it changed. but that was the impression i got from that section.

That is exactly what I was doing. The "call" is the same phrase, cut and pasted four times. The "response" is a bunch of overplayed nonsense. Ignore the flurry of notes. It is the tone that matters.

vale said:
a few places where it seems suspiciously grunty and clangy that made me think i was listening to a ricky.

Again, this was precisely my point. The attack transient on the notes influences how your ear decides what it is hearing. I hit 'em pretty hard.

Bridgehouse

C’mon @Funkfingers fess up - what was the other bass?

Funkfingers

You won't like it.

Bridgehouse

Funkfingers said:

You won't like it.

Ah ok. That’s all I needed to know

OilCityPickups

Let me state for the record: the 51 sized pickup I built for @Bridgehouse was in order to get a sound closer to a Rick without added EQ for his particular guitar. There are other factors at work: harmonic positioning of the pickup etc. If the pickup were fitted in exactly the same position relative to the bridge that a Rick one was, the match would be closer. 

vale

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Let me state for the record: the 51 sized pickup I built for @Bridgehouse was in order to get a sound closer to a Rick without added EQ for his particular guitar. There are other factors at work: harmonic positioning of the pickup etc. If the pickup were fitted in exactly the same position relative to the bridge that a Rick one was, the match would be closer. 

point made clear and appreciated @TheGuitarWeasel

Bridgehouse

vale said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Let me state for the record: the 51 sized pickup I built for @Bridgehouse was in order to get a sound closer to a Rick without added EQ for his particular guitar. There are other factors at work: harmonic positioning of the pickup etc. If the pickup were fitted in exactly the same position relative to the bridge that a Rick one was, the match would be closer. 

point made clear and appreciated @TheGuitarWeasel

I have to say though @vale, if you went for a cheap short scale like a music master/bronco/SG style (or whatever to be honest) and had @TheGuitarWeasel wind you one of these, you'd get a lot closer to the Ric sound with short scale feel that you'd probably image. 

vale

Funkfingers said:

vale said:

on first listen, there didn't seem a huge difference between the two across two thirds of it

Thank you. This was pretty much my point.

If you are struggling (or not bothered) to detect much difference with just exposed drums and bass guitar, how little are you going to care when the rest of a song arrangement is added? Many of the higher frequency details that help differentiate between bass guitar makes and models will be masked.

it was those few instances of grunt and clang across a third of it, but as you say, for all reasonable intents and purposes the rest would not be seperable, especially in a mix with under the influence of effects compression verb etc.

i got the behringer bdi21 pedal this week (sansamp bass driver clone). under £30 so didn't kill me. will see what i can do with that next time i have a bash but that was recommended a few times early on in the thread (thanks to those that recommended it) as a good way to aim my stock raw bass tone more keenly.

vale said:

on second listen, i got organised and took rough notes of those instance i thought were definitely ricky. so by default the rest then falls into either the p bass, or so little difference it may as well be a p bass.

Methinks that you were deceived by the Soundcloud background photograph. I knew that I should have used another image.

Me also thinks that you do not currently have access to a P Bass.

i actually didn't notice any background image. my adblock settings are set to block 99% of all superfluous gif flash etc, so it got blanked.

i have a hofner ignition violin. my heart is full and there are no other basses in my universe.

vale said:

my notes say:
0m19s to 0m43s def ricky.
1m49s to 2m06s def ricky.
run at end from 2m44s def ricky.

Half right. The Rick switches from neck PU, to both, to bridge PU. The other bass remains consistent.
Half right.
Completely right.

describing my answers as "half right" when there were only two options to choose from is...an indulgence bordering on charity!

'half wrong' then... *rolls eyes*.

vale said:
there was a bit, 1m00s to 1m30s, where i got the impression you were quickly alternating between the two. but the switching maybe too quick for me to reach a definite decision on either entirely before it changed. but that was the impression i got from that section.

That is exactly what I was doing. The "call" is the same phrase, cut and pasted four times. The "response" is a bunch of overplayed nonsense. Ignore the flurry of notes. It is the tone that matters.

"Ignore the flurry of notes. It is the tone that matters."

i use that one in the studio a lot too. i alternate it with "sorry, a bee bit me. can we go again?".

vale said:
a few places where it seems suspiciously grunty and clangy that made me think i was listening to a ricky.

Again, this was precisely my point. The attack transient on the notes influences how your ear decides what it is hearing. I hit 'em pretty hard.

what do you mean by "attack transient"? and how do you suggest someone looking to get closer to a punchy ricky tone controls that aspect. is it all in the plectrum strike or would a compressor be useful in ramping things up too?

vale

Bridgehouse said:

vale said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Let me state for the record: the 51 sized pickup I built for @Bridgehouse was in order to get a sound closer to a Rick without added EQ for his particular guitar. There are other factors at work: harmonic positioning of the pickup etc. If the pickup were fitted in exactly the same position relative to the bridge that a Rick one was, the match would be closer. 

point made clear and appreciated @TheGuitarWeasel

I have to say though @vale, if you went for a cheap short scale like a music master/bronco/SG style (or whatever to be honest) and had @TheGuitarWeasel wind you one of these, you'd get a lot closer to the Ric sound with short scale feel that you'd probably image. 

for anyone else who is interested in the findings of this thread, i think that would probably be a wise call woodwork-wise, in view of informed opions expressed and funkfingers experiment.
we have yet to hear the oil city pickup, but coming from a maker known and respected for their expertise and product, i suspect it will deliver according to the self-determined brief.
if demos arouse curiosity and interest, maybe it will make it into the official range, which would be cool.

but for me personally, in all my playing days i have never played a fender bass i liked (ever!).
i just find the necks waaaaay too chunky. jazz basses not too horrible until halfway up. but the precisions and even the shortscales i have tried (mustang and bronco) are just too thick.
if you have average male size hands then they are probably perfect. my theory is that they are essentially designed to suit a certain average male palm cup and finger length ratio.
but they don't suit me at all. my hand starts spazzing out and aching quick. so i avoid fenders entirely.

i had a fender-squier shortscale jaguar bass (curiously 'fender proper' don't do them) with an amazing neck, but i hated the pickup set up. very bridge-twang focused. and i didn't want to experiment with routing a neck pickup on a new bass.
i prefer neck pickups to bridge pickups (guitars & basses). they seem to generate more substance to play with.

gibson shortscale EBs are ok. skinny at the nut. they chunk out a bit (depth) further down, but not totally unplayable. they usually have a decent fatbucker in neck position too. but i'm not crazy about the look. very rock or metal vibe. bodies seem thin and insubstantial too (don't like SG guitars either).

anyway, i'm happily married to my little hofner ignition, and all the bass sounds i produce from now on will originate there. some may smile and call it a toy bass. and i understand what they mean. it's tiny, superlight, and a budget price. but for my build and hand size (and purse) it's perfect. and i have lots of effects and amp/cab sim things to play with. i can also build pedals so can tweak tone stacks and swap capacitors to restrict or free desired frequencies.

so that was the pretext for the thread; 'if you already have a bass you like, how can you push that into ricky territory at the minimum of cost with add-ons (pedals, etc) and/or with the minimum of mods (pickups, etc)?').

i think a lot of interesting ideas have come out of that. and still more to come. i want to hear this 'freakybucker' pickup. maybe doctor @Bridgehouse is in the lab working on that as i type.

Bridgehouse

Dr Bridgehouse is actually slobbing in front of the telly. But I do have a plan for some recording to sample the new acquisition - and some old faithfuls too...

vale

Bridgehouse said:

Dr Bridgehouse is actually slobbing in front of the telly.

*sighs*... one just can't get the staff these days.

Bridgehouse

vale said:

Bridgehouse said:

Dr Bridgehouse is actually slobbing in front of the telly.

*sighs*... one just can't get the staff these days.

Lol. It’s quite a sight. Mrs Bridgehouse is doing some sort of embroidery and I’m half watching half surfing. Dogs are all snoozing. 

Saturday night apethy has set in!

Funkfingers

vale said:
what do you mean by "attack transient"?

If you are familiar with how individual notes are represented on a computer screen during digital recording, the spiky bit at the beginning of a note is the attack. It does not last very long, therefore, it can be described as transient.

vale said:
how do you suggest someone looking to get closer to a punchy ricky tone controls that aspect?

Both pickups on. Solo switch on. Plectrum or fingernail. Pummel the strings - hard enough to induce fret rattle, if appropriate. 

It is difficult to offer suggestions for how to set the controls on the Behringer BDI-21 when it lacks any mid range tone controls. Plenty of gain, wind up the treble, lose a little bass.

vale said:
would a compressor be useful in ramping things up too?

A properly adjusted compressor will reduce the peak of the attack transient and can increase the level of the decay, sustain and the release.

Depending where the compressor is in the signal chain, it might reduce the sensitivity of overdrive circuitry to playing dynamics. 

Thus, increasing the compressor make-up gain will send more signal to the next device in the chain but the sonic variety that you can achieve through playing techniques will be reduced.

OilCityPickups

vale said:

Bridgehouse said:

vale said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Let me state for the record: the 51 sized pickup I built for @Bridgehouse was in order to get a sound closer to a Rick without added EQ for his particular guitar. There are other factors at work: harmonic positioning of the pickup etc. If the pickup were fitted in exactly the same position relative to the bridge that a Rick one was, the match would be closer. 

point made clear and appreciated @TheGuitarWeasel

I have to say though @vale, if you went for a cheap short scale like a music master/bronco/SG style (or whatever to be honest) and had @TheGuitarWeasel wind you one of these, you'd get a lot closer to the Ric sound with short scale feel that you'd probably image. 

we have yet to hear the oil city pickup, but coming from a maker known and respected for their expertise and product, i suspect it will deliver according to the self-determined brief.
if demos arouse curiosity and interest, maybe it will make it into the official range, which would be cool.

Well it seems to already be on sale ... as I've pre sold ... er ... more than onel! Who'd have guessed? 
The next step will be enginearing it into more than one form factor. Possibly a later split, humbucking version ... we'll see. 

Bridgehouse

@TheGuitarWeasel - looks like I’m your new marketing department

OilCityPickups

Bridgehouse said:

@TheGuitarWeasel - looks like I’m your new marketing department

I think some goodies can be arranged for putting me up to this :-)