Line 6 Variax Standard vs James Tyler Variax JTV Korean series. Anyone played both?

Boromedic

Hi all, I have my eyes on getting a Variax at some point however I'm torn between which to get. I can't afford a Tyler USA one so it's between the 2 above and I'm looking at used so the price difference isn't so huge. Probably £3-350 for the Standard and around £450-500 for the Tyler.

From what I've read all of the Variax software and tech is the same in both guitars, so it's simply the outward guitar thats different. I've read reviews on the net comparing the standard to Yamaha's Pacifica line (not sure which range it would equal), I've had a budget Pacifica before which was pretty good in its price range, however the Tyler is supposedly the better made instrument. I'm in no position at the moment to try either, however I wnt one initially to try with a view to gigging in the long term. With that in mind I've kind of thought the more expensive one would be best for that but I'm open to anyones experience of both guitars to convince me otherwise!

Thanks in advance, Al

John_A

Have played both - The standard feels like a pretty good budget guitar, the Tyler is a lot better IMO well worth the extra, they look better too

Boromedic

Cheers @John_A , yeah I definitely prefer the look of the JTVs, that's great feedback regarding the guitars though, just what I was after, thanks.

impmann

...did somebody ring?

Er, yes... I have played quite a few of both before the demise of Line6 UK. ;-)

Anyway, yes - broadly right. The Standard is based on the Pacifica with six screw trem (standard Strat type - albeit not a direct swap for obv reasons), with the Variax circuitry shoe-horned in.

The JTVs were designed by Tyler (every aspect of them, in fact, aside from the L6 circuitry) and built by World Guitars in Korea - same place as the PRS SE, LTDs, Brian May, ESP... all sorts... are made. VERY high quality build, using similar wood stock (if not better in two or three instances) to the PRS.

The necks on the JTVs refect Tyler's influence - the 59 (LP-alike) is very fat, and palm filling, the 69 (a bit like a Strat crossed with a Jaguar) has Tyler's own unusual F-type neck profile  and the 89 (shred-tastic) is thin and flat. They tend to be marmite - you either love em or hate em.

The Yamaha-influenced one is a bit more 'generic' and I mean that in a nice way. Its a friendly C-profile that feels very familiar.

And yes, the circuitry is pretty much identical - as was the software. So they are capable of exactly the same.

The Standard is definitely a cheaper-made instrument but has Yamaha QC behind it, the JTV was a much dearer instrument to start with and *some* are excellent - not all. I'm probably not at liberty to say much more than that due to the NDA I signed, but definitely try before you buy.

They are both great in their own way - just try before you buy!

Boromedic

Wow! Great insight, cheers @impmann that's amazing info straight from the horse's mouth so to speak! 

Very much appreciated, I shall get looking for one near me then. Thanks again

Voxman

John_A said:

Have played both - The standard feels like a pretty good budget guitar, the Tyler is a lot better IMO well worth the extra, they look better too

+1.  Conceptually, these are brilliant.  However, I strongly recommend that you don't buy any Variax until you've played it.  I tried the Tyler JTV59 at Yamaha Music (Yamaha now owns Line 6 I believe). Physically, the guitar itself was nicely put together with a very comfortable neck-heel, comfortable neck, and good quality machine-heads, bridge, & switches. The 'normal' pups were actually surprisingly good too. 

However, you'll need to invest some serious time to learn the models, and which switch activates which model/pup selection as the switches do different things for different models and there's a big list. I did like the ability to instantly alter tunings but if you play quietly at home you'll hear the 'true' EADGBE tuning under the 'modelled' re-tuning which is disconcerting - at any reasonable volume however that shouldn't be a problem. I also liked the ability to programme favourite models and tunings into the toggle switch (JTV59)/slide selector (JTV69).

But the big disappointments for me were the guitar modeling and its 'fiddliness'. With a few exceptions, the models were less than convincing and a lot of the models sounded so similar to each other such that any difference was by and large somewhat inconsequential.  The 12 string modeling was actually fairly useable and the Sitar was interesting but I suspect most players wouldn't use the latter much. Perhaps it was a quirk/fault of the one I played, but sometimes it took a few goes for the open tuning to sound right.  However, if you plan to use this at a gig you really will need to learn your way around it or just stick to a few models programmed into the toggle/slider selector.  Trying to navigate via the main Variax knob would just be a nightmare for most people.  

It also felt 'different' to playing the guitar in modeling mode v on-board p/ups.  It's hard to explain but there was a certain loss of direct sensitivity/feel where it didn't respond in quite the same way. I don't think it was 'lag' per-se but it just felt a wee bit 'un-natural'. 

Hence why you really need to put one through its paces before buying.

To cut to the chase, and although I really wanted to, I just didn't get on with it and ended up buying the Yamaha Pacifica 611VFM. 

  

Boromedic

Thanks @Voxman that's very useful to know, much appreciated. I was prepared to try blind, but having read that then I will look to try one at some point instead. I like the idea of the tunings more than the modelling side of things, so hopefully they will work as planned. I heard about the dissonance with the standard tunings vs the cyborg mode, I'll mostly be playing through my Atomic Amplifire with decent phones, or at rehearsal volume so hopefully it won't be an issue? Best thing is to give it a whirl I think, in terms of the guitar and the Variax stuff also.

Cheers!

impmann

If I had a penny for each time I had someone convinced that they were hearing the standard tuning sound and the altered tuning sound at the same time, I'd be able to retire.

On *EVERY* occasion, it was not the case (believe me, at one point I had to research this and go back through every return *worldwide* for this reason for return). Don't be surprised by how much of the acoustic string sound you can hear, even at a decent volume - most people don't even notice, but its there. Its one of the issues a lot of guitarists have when they go to IEMs, as they say they don't feel "in" the gig any more... I'm convinced its a disconnection from the acoustic noises from the guitar.

I'm not trying to put you off - far from it! But there is a lot of internet noise about it - and because L6 are terrible at printing resolutions to issues on their forums, some think its a genuine problem and I see it regurgitated from time to time like a bad kebab.

I gigged and recorded with Variax for years - great things, and the alternate tunings do work well as long as your amp/headphones volume is significantly louder than the acoustic sound of the guitar.

Voxman

impmann said:

If I had a penny for each time I had someone convinced that they were hearing the standard tuning sound and the altered tuning sound at the same time, I'd be able to retire.

On *EVERY* occasion, it was not the case (believe me, at one point I had to research this and go back through every return *worldwide* for this reason for return).

Don't be surprised by how much of the acoustic string sound you can hear, even at a decent volume - most people don't even notice, but its there. Its one of the issues a lot of guitarists have when they go to IEMs, as they say they don't feel "in" the gig any more... I'm convinced its a disconnection from the acoustic noises from the guitar.

I'm not trying to put you off - far from it! But there is a lot of internet noise about it - and because L6 are terrible at printing resolutions to issues on their forums, some think its a genuine problem and I see it regurgitated from time to time like a bad kebab.

I gigged and recorded with Variax for years - great things, and the alternate tunings do work well as long as your amp/headphones volume is significantly louder than the acoustic sound of the guitar.

I read your post several times @impmann - I don't know if it's just me, but I'm a little confused.  At the beginning of your post you seem to be saying on every occasion it wasn't the case that people were hearing the true tuning with the modelled tuning. You then seem to be saying 'don't be surprised by how much of the acoustic string sound you can hear, even at a decent volume - most people don't even notice, but its there".  You then say "I gigged and recorded with Variax for years - great things, and the alternate tunings do work well as long as your amp/headphones volume is significantly louder than the acoustic sound of the guitar."

You therefore seem to be agreeing that at quieter volumes the acoustic 'true tuning' can be heard and can be disconcerting - but I don't then understand the first part of your post (in bold) above? 

impmann

Voxman said:

impmann said:

If I had a penny for each time I had someone convinced that they were hearing the standard tuning sound and the altered tuning sound at the same time, I'd be able to retire.

On *EVERY* occasion, it was not the case (believe me, at one point I had to research this and go back through every return *worldwide* for this reason for return).

Don't be surprised by how much of the acoustic string sound you can hear, even at a decent volume - most people don't even notice, but its there. Its one of the issues a lot of guitarists have when they go to IEMs, as they say they don't feel "in" the gig any more... I'm convinced its a disconnection from the acoustic noises from the guitar.

I'm not trying to put you off - far from it! But there is a lot of internet noise about it - and because L6 are terrible at printing resolutions to issues on their forums, some think its a genuine problem and I see it regurgitated from time to time like a bad kebab.

I gigged and recorded with Variax for years - great things, and the alternate tunings do work well as long as your amp/headphones volume is significantly louder than the acoustic sound of the guitar.

I read your post several times @impmann - I don't know if it's just me, but I'm a little confused.  At the beginning of your post you seem to be saying on every occasion it wasn't the case that people were hearing the true tuning with the modelled tuning. You then seem to be saying 'don't be surprised by how much of the acoustic string sound you can hear, even at a decent volume - most people don't even notice, but its there".  You then say "I gigged and recorded with Variax for years - great things, and the alternate tunings do work well as long as your amp/headphones volume is significantly louder than the acoustic sound of the guitar."

You therefore seem to be agreeing that at quieter volumes the acoustic 'true tuning' can be heard and can be disconcerting - but I don't then understand the first part of your post (in bold) above? 

OK, apologies for the confusion...

The reported fault used to be that both the standard and modelled tuning were being sent to the amplifier. What they were actually hearing was the acoustic sound of the instrument mixed with the amplified (modelled tuning).

Does that make more sense? Sorry all, not trying to confuse folks... :-)

Boromedic

Thanks dude, yeah I meant the acoustic noise at low volumes ringing in with the alternate tunings too, not the idea of hearing both through the amp or anything. I shall find a dealer soonish and give one a whirl hopefully. 

Voxman

impmann said:

Voxman said:

impmann said:

If I had a penny for each time I had someone convinced that they were hearing the standard tuning sound and the altered tuning sound at the same time, I'd be able to retire.

On *EVERY* occasion, it was not the case (believe me, at one point I had to research this and go back through every return *worldwide* for this reason for return).

Don't be surprised by how much of the acoustic string sound you can hear, even at a decent volume - most people don't even notice, but its there. Its one of the issues a lot of guitarists have when they go to IEMs, as they say they don't feel "in" the gig any more... I'm convinced its a disconnection from the acoustic noises from the guitar.

I'm not trying to put you off - far from it! But there is a lot of internet noise about it - and because L6 are terrible at printing resolutions to issues on their forums, some think its a genuine problem and I see it regurgitated from time to time like a bad kebab.

I gigged and recorded with Variax for years - great things, and the alternate tunings do work well as long as your amp/headphones volume is significantly louder than the acoustic sound of the guitar.

I read your post several times @impmann - I don't know if it's just me, but I'm a little confused.  At the beginning of your post you seem to be saying on every occasion it wasn't the case that people were hearing the true tuning with the modelled tuning. You then seem to be saying 'don't be surprised by how much of the acoustic string sound you can hear, even at a decent volume - most people don't even notice, but its there".  You then say "I gigged and recorded with Variax for years - great things, and the alternate tunings do work well as long as your amp/headphones volume is significantly louder than the acoustic sound of the guitar."

You therefore seem to be agreeing that at quieter volumes the acoustic 'true tuning' can be heard and can be disconcerting - but I don't then understand the first part of your post (in bold) above? 

OK, apologies for the confusion...

The reported fault used to be that both the standard and modelled tuning were being sent to the amplifier. What they were actually hearing was the acoustic sound of the instrument mixed with the amplified (modelled tuning).

Does that make more sense? Sorry all, not trying to confuse folks... :-)

Yup, that makes sense now - thanks for clarifying. 

Cabicular

With the Helix it all really opens up
i have just finished my Ramble on patch which lets me switch from acoustic to electric to harmony delay all with snapshots
The Tyler isn’t a great guitar it’s not bad either it’s just there
I wouldn’t gig with just the Variax but I use it for a few specialist songs.
i think the mags are awful though and would change them if I was going to use it more

Boromedic

Cool. thanks for the info, I used to have the X3 Live board and that had a Variax input and I often wondered if the whole thing as a package would probably be a great thing, or.... would it be a mess of so many options! I may have to give one a try if and when I pick up a Variax. Does the Helix LT also have a Variax line in?

(Edit: just checked, indeed it does!)

normula1

When I used to travel a lot for work, I bought Variax 500 and XTLive and the ability to flick between models and patches at the same time was great. I did try a good few Variaxes before I picked mine and I was quite surprised that they seemed (at least to my ears) to sound different to each other..

I still use it quite a bit to play "acoustic" and find it helps to mentally picture the modelled tone you are playing. I certainly play a 335 style guitar differently to a Strat for example.

duotone

I've got one of the original (cheapest) 300 models, so I can't comment on the newer ones. 

A year or so ago I asked on here if it was worth getting one and the general consensus was that as the electrics are the same...I would be better off waiting for new models to be released when the electronics would be upgraded as essentially it was 'old technology'.  I haven't played the JTV models at all.

normula1 said:

I still use it quite a bit to play "acoustic" and find it helps to mentally picture the modelled tone you are playing. I certainly play a 335 style guitar differently to a Strat for example.

Totally agree with this. 

Would definitely recommend downloading and reading the Variax Standard Pilots Guide for information on the models...modelled!

https://uk.line6.com/variax-modeling-guitars/resources/

impmann

duotone said:

I've got one of the original (cheapest) 300 models, so I can't comment on the newer ones. 

A year or so ago I asked on here if it was worth getting one and the general consensus was that as the electrics are the same...I would be better off waiting for new models to be released when the electronics would be upgraded as essentially it was 'old technology'.  I haven't played the JTV models at all.

I don't think I'd agree that its "old technology" - its "current" technology!

It was a massive update when the JTV was launched - the modelling was soooooooo much better than the older models and the sounds were more stable (12 strings especially). On the older models (like the 300) the 12 string modelling is applied in a much more crude way, hence the warbles etc that they are prone to, plus there is no way you can apply the alternate tuning to them in the same way as the JTVs because the chip set cannot cope with that level of processing.

I don't know who gave you that advice, but I'd question it (OK, my viewpoint may be skewed by working for L6 for 10 years specialising in repair, service and Variax production... sadly not any more) - and I suggest you try a JTV or Standard for yourself to see the improvements. And there are *LOTS* of them!!

duotone

Cheers @impmann for the info.

Yes agreed about the 300 model 12 strings, they were something that I rarely bothered to use as they weren't very convincing.  I will have to try one of the newer models sometime.

Further down the line can you forsee a new range of models being released?

neilg

They've already started doing new models with the Shurikens.

duotone

I mean with new/updated shapes, styles (Les Paul/SuperStrat) finishes etc.

Like; 
https://line6.com/variax-modeling-guitars/variax-hd/

impmann

duotone said:

Further down the line can you forsee a new range of models being released?

Tbh, I’ve no idea - Line6 UK closed three years ago, so my knowledge of anything in the pipeline is totally out of date.