Taking a vintage guitar apart....

skaguitar

TheGuitarWeasel said:

My big eye opener came when I did pickup work for a rather famous touring band ... one that features lots of lip smacking  vintage guitars. Flight case drawers full of vintage fender and gibson pickups that were swapped out as necessary ... rubbing shoulders with modern recreations ... because you couldn't have instruments down with a show to do. No precious attitude, just nice old tools kept in tip top gigging notch by skilled guitar techs.
Stripping down vintage Fenders is a necessity, and usually they play better after a tuneup ... not worse. I'm assuming the OP wouldn't feel comfortable with a refret either ... in which case his hypothetical vintage guitar becomes unplayable with wear ... that's it ... it's the glass cabinet or landfill, as all the mojo would get thrown away with the knackered frets! :-). 

you shouldn't assume anything... if my goldtop tele that I gig now needed a refret I would get it done...it's not a vintage guitar worth thousands of pounds though...and also if I had a vintage guitar that I gigged regularly that needed work doing to keep it playable of course I would get it done... but what I'm saying is if it was taken apart to do that...and I knew it had been then I might perceive that it played differently...even if it didn't... I'm not precious about stuff and get all that everyone is saying...it's just my perception and my quirk...but hey... it's not life or death is it..

and 'mojo' is in the player not the guitar

Henrytwang

ICBM said:

If you're careful how you take them apart and put them back together, there's no issue.

One mistake a lot of people make is not to preserve the original screw positions - this sounds very geeky, but if you put things like the pickguard screws back in the wrong places, the pattern of corrosion on them doesn't look right and it's very obvious that it's been had apart. I always set the screws down in the shape of the pickguard as they come out, so they go back in the same holes. (And the same with the other sets of screws.)

One of the chaps at the shop has made a little wooden block with holes drilled in it to make it easier, I should probably do the same.

I know exactly what you mean. I own a few old Fenders and when I have to take one apart for maintenance I always put the pick guard screws back in the same positions, I find that the screws close to the bridge and control areas are always more tarnished. 

OilCityPickups

skaguitar said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

My big eye opener came when I did pickup work for a rather famous touring band ... one that features lots of lip smacking  vintage guitars. Flight case drawers full of vintage fender and gibson pickups that were swapped out as necessary ... rubbing shoulders with modern recreations ... because you couldn't have instruments down with a show to do. No precious attitude, just nice old tools kept in tip top gigging notch by skilled guitar techs.
Stripping down vintage Fenders is a necessity, and usually they play better after a tuneup ... not worse. I'm assuming the OP wouldn't feel comfortable with a refret either ... in which case his hypothetical vintage guitar becomes unplayable with wear ... that's it ... it's the glass cabinet or landfill, as all the mojo would get thrown away with the knackered frets! :-). 

you shouldn't assume anything... if my goldtop tele that I gig now needed a refret I would get it done...it's not a vintage guitar worth thousands of pounds though...and also if I had a vintage guitar that I gigged regularly that needed work doing to keep it playable of course I would get it done... but what I'm saying is if it was taken apart to do that...and I knew it had been then I might perceive that it played differently...even if it didn't... I'm not precious about stuff and get all that everyone is saying...it's just my perception and my quirk...but hey... it's not life or death is it..

and 'mojo' is in the player not the guitar

As someone who rewinds vintage pickups as part of my living I'm pretty used to handling nice and valuable old gear ... and I'm aware that mojo in the instrument is a crock of s--t. Of course you are right, it comes from the player, and I really wasn't taking a swipe at you. 

A Story that happened a little while ago: A guitarist came to visit my workshop to have a couple of new pickups popped into his fairly new Les paul. I saw he had brought two cases, and asked what was in the other one. He told me he'd brought one of his other guitars because he knew I liked old instruments, and to open up the case and take a look. Inside was a gorgeous sunburst 62 Strat, a bit roadworn ... but honest wear, not trashed. I asked if I could plug it in and try it, and he said to go ahead, but it wasn't really worth it. I asked why, and he said that the neck and middle pickups hadn't worked for over ten years, bit he wasn't going to open it up as he wanted to keep it all original. So I had in my hand a fairly useless one pickup Strat, or a very expensive door stop. No way would he want the switch checked ... or god forbid a pickup rewound. I see this all the time, and it makes me rather sad, as lovely instruments are there to be played.

The average Stradivarius violin is worth several times the value of a 62 Strat, yet they remain in players hands, with replacement fingerboards as needed, sound posts reset etc etc ...     

gringopig

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ICBM

TheGuitarWeasel said:

The average Stradivarius violin is worth several times the value of a 62 Strat, yet they remain in players hands, with replacement fingerboards as needed, sound posts reset etc etc ...     

I've previously asked how much a '59 Les Paul would be worth if it had a neck reset, new fingerboard, nut and bridge, new machineheads, the top off and reglued a couple of times, a few other minor repairs and a non-original case. I don't know, but I suspect the answer is not that much.

Which is ironic since all that has been done to every Stradivari that's playable in the normal sense today. (There's one in a museum with the original flat neck angle, but it would be difficult to use for a modern violinist.)

A friend of mine has a '64 Strat, and one day the bridge pickup died. I was going to send it off to be rewound, but he needed to use the guitar that weekend, and as luck would have it he had a spare Duncan Hot Rails kicking about... so we put that in the Strat temporarily.

It sounded so good that he's never got round to having the old pickup rewound . It always amuses vintage guitar purists every time one sees it too .

I've got a simple rule with vintage gear - if something doesn't need changing for the guitar/amp/whatever to work properly (ie if the part can be cleaned, adjusted, re-tensioned, whatever) then don't change it. If it does need changing to make it work properly, then change it. Or in the case of amps, safe and reliable as well as working properly - some people don't like this...

guitars4you

ICBM said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

The average Stradivarius violin is worth several times the value of a 62 Strat, yet they remain in players hands, with replacement fingerboards as needed, sound posts reset etc etc ...     

I've previously asked how much a '59 Les Paul would be worth if it had a neck reset, new fingerboard, nut and bridge, new machineheads, the top off and reglued a couple of times, a few other minor repairs and a non-original case. I don't know, but I suspect the answer is not that much.

Which is ironic since all that has been done to every Stradivari that's playable in the normal sense today. (There's one in a museum with the original flat neck angle, but it would be difficult to use for a modern violinist.)

haven't they had the scale length changed as well ? - from baroque to modern orchestral - effectively like changing a 12 fret Martin to 14 Fret - Or an LP at 24.75 to Fender-esq 25.5

ICBM

guitars4you said:

haven't they had the scale length changed as well ? - from baroque to modern orchestral - effectively like changing a 12 fret Martin to 14 Fret - Or an LP at 24.75 to Fender-esq 25.5

I've read that too, but I can't see how unless the neck is replaced - the bridge doesn't get moved either. Unless it's just the marginal increase - there will be a small one - caused by increasing the neck angle and using a higher bridge which is tilted slightly the other way.

usedtobe

Funkfingers said:

usedtobe said:

We all have odd little ways.

Sorry about that.   

If I could remember the exact quotation, I would have used the Tommy Cooper joke in which he complains to the doctor that doing something or other hurts. The doctor replies, "well, stop doing it then."

I think I know the one you mean. 

guitars4you

ICBM said:

guitars4you said:

haven't they had the scale length changed as well ? - from baroque to modern orchestral - effectively like changing a 12 fret Martin to 14 Fret - Or an LP at 24.75 to Fender-esq 25.5

I've read that too, but I can't see how unless the neck is replaced - the bridge doesn't get moved either. Unless it's just the marginal increase - there will be a small one - caused by increasing the neck angle and using a higher bridge which is tilted slightly the other way.

https://www.violinist.com/discussion/archive/25930/
http://blog.feinviolins.com/2015/06/your-violin-neck-used-to-be-shorter.html

the above might be of interest to you

WezV

guitars4you said:

ICBM said:

guitars4you said:

haven't they had the scale length changed as well ? - from baroque to modern orchestral - effectively like changing a 12 fret Martin to 14 Fret - Or an LP at 24.75 to Fender-esq 25.5

I've read that too, but I can't see how unless the neck is replaced - the bridge doesn't get moved either. Unless it's just the marginal increase - there will be a small one - caused by increasing the neck angle and using a higher bridge which is tilted slightly the other way.

https://www.violinist.com/discussion/archive/25930/
http://blog.feinviolins.com/2015/06/your-violin-neck-used-to-be-shorter.html

the above might be of interest to you

That’s like the baritone conversion project I have planned for when I eventually get my hands on a ‘59

ICBM

guitars4you said:

https://www.violinist.com/discussion/archive/25930/

http://blog.feinviolins.com/2015/06/your-violin-neck-used-to-be-shorter.html

the above might be of interest to you

Yes, very! So to achieve the same result on a '59 Les Paul Standard, as well as all that other stuff you would need to to graft the old neck onto a new heel, lengthening the scale to about 26" and adding a couple of extra frets, in order to be suitable for the new drop-tuned metal music of the 21st century.

Bridgehouse

WezV said:

guitars4you said:

ICBM said:

guitars4you said:

haven't they had the scale length changed as well ? - from baroque to modern orchestral - effectively like changing a 12 fret Martin to 14 Fret - Or an LP at 24.75 to Fender-esq 25.5

I've read that too, but I can't see how unless the neck is replaced - the bridge doesn't get moved either. Unless it's just the marginal increase - there will be a small one - caused by increasing the neck angle and using a higher bridge which is tilted slightly the other way.

https://www.violinist.com/discussion/archive/25930/
http://blog.feinviolins.com/2015/06/your-violin-neck-used-to-be-shorter.html

the above might be of interest to you

That’s like the baritone conversion project I have planned for when I eventually get my hands on a ‘59

Thought you said that the '59 would get converted to a recording with bigsby, new controls, pickups etc and you'd get rid of that horrid burst top and put a new one on? no?

Gassage

Still taking my R6 apart as I type; can anyone advise, in order to maintain originality, do I use a tenon saw or hacksaw on the neck? Thx.

Bridgehouse

Gassage said:

Still taking my R6 apart as I type; can anyone advise, in order to maintain originality, do I use a tenon saw or hacksaw on the neck? Thx.

guitars4you

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  made me smile

impmann

Gassage said:

Still taking my R6 apart as I type; can anyone advise, in order to maintain originality, do I use a tenon saw or hacksaw on the neck? Thx.

Yes, remember to draw the saw backwards first and then push forwards, as this maintains the factory cutting marks.

When gluing back together, make sure that the horse you melt down  to create the glue is between the ages of three and three and a half years old, is called "Gerald" and has been fed only on grass from a South facing field.

As an aside, I once did a set up on a 1964 Strat, beloved of it's owner who chose that one because the sound was better than all the others he'd tried... the pickups were Kent Armstrong Sky units with the stickers removed. I think it broke his heart when I showed him - and I agree it was a killer Strat.

guitars4you

impmann said:

As an aside, I once did a set up on a 1964 Strat, beloved of it's owner who chose that one because the sound was better than all the others he'd tried... the pickups were Kent Armstrong Sky units with the stickers removed. I think it broke his heart when I showed him - and I agree it was a killer Strat.

don't tell @richardhomer about such stickers

Bridgehouse

guitars4you said:

impmann said:

As an aside, I once did a set up on a 1964 Strat, beloved of it's owner who chose that one because the sound was better than all the others he'd tried... the pickups were Kent Armstrong Sky units with the stickers removed. I think it broke his heart when I showed him - and I agree it was a killer Strat.

don't tell @richardhomer about such stickers

You are safe - they were removed!

Gassage

Being serious for one moment...the point that @icbm made about plate screws...

the neck plate screws are even more important. Each one should go back into the same hole every time. The bottom neck side one on a preCBS guitar should always be the most worn by a mile. If I don’t see this, then I know the guitar hasn’t been cared for properly 

Anderz

It's typical in the US and on strat talk forum that a post like identify this stratocaster comes up. A lot of times they are not as advertised as you would think. 

Another thing is the ID stands on the end of the fretboard on a stratocaster and are the pots and pickups/wiring still intact after so many years?