Fender Twin Reverb alternative?

victorludorum

Where will you be playing this amp, only at home, or at gigs/rehearsals?

Calum13

victorludorum said:

Where will you be playing this amp, only at home, or at gigs/rehearsals?

At home most of the time but possibly gigs and rehearsals if I were to join a band.

ICBM

Just out of interest, when you say you can't justify the price of a Twin, what is your budget?

Asking because actually, Twins aren't expensive second hand - you'll pay no more for one than a Deluxe Reverb in the same sort of condition, and possibly less - people are put off by the size, weight and the idea of having 'too much power' - although this is wrong really, since they have a good volume control taper and sound great at very low volume as well as up loud.

But they are a pain to carry anywhere. They're actually not *that* heavy - although some of the 70s models are, there are still quite a few heavier amps - but they are a slightly awkward shape and not very well balanced, and don't have end handles so can't easily be carried by two people. You can get wheels for them - the sockets are fitted as stock - but it doesn't help much with stairs or getting one into a car.

The Traynor is actually heavier than a Twin as well.

Something you might not have come across yet is a Mesa F-50 - it's an old model now but not impossible to find second hand, and doesn't sell for much by Mesa standards - probably no more than a second hand Twin reissue. The clean channel is unusually 'Fendery' for a Mesa, and the overdrive channel is obviously a Mesa. It's a 1x12" combo and not too heavy for a Mesa either. (The even smaller F-30 is nowhere near as Fender-like unfortunately.)

57Deluxe

what about a big Rivera model?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2322090.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.Xrivera+amp.TRS0&_nkw=rivera+amp&_sacat=0

Calum13

ICBM said:

Just out of interest, when you say you can't justify the price of a Twin, what is your budget?

Asking because actually, Twins aren't expensive second hand - you'll pay no more for one than a Deluxe Reverb in the same sort of condition, and possibly less - people are put off by the size, weight and the idea of having 'too much power' - although this is wrong really, since they have a good volume control taper and sound great at very low volume as well as up loud.

But they are a pain to carry anywhere. They're actually not *that* heavy - although some of the 70s models are, there are still quite a few heavier amps - but they are a slightly awkward shape and not very well balanced, and don't have end handles so can't easily be carried by two people. You can get wheels for them - the sockets are fitted as stock - but it doesn't help much with stairs or getting one into a car.

The Traynor is actually heavier than a Twin as well.

Something you might not have come across yet is a Mesa F-50 - it's an old model now but not impossible to find second hand, and doesn't sell for much by Mesa standards - probably no more than a second hand Twin reissue. The clean channel is unusually 'Fendery' for a Mesa, and the overdrive channel is obviously a Mesa. It's a 1x12" combo and not too heavy for a Mesa either. (The even smaller F-30 is nowhere near as Fender-like unfortunately.)

I would say my budget is about £600 and under. I'm not looking for much effects on the amp probably just reverb and gain as I don't use all the other ones.

meltedbuzzbox

you can get an used twin for £500

you wont get gain unless you buy a twin amp/the twin. 

ICBM

Calum13 said:

I would say my budget is about £600 and under. I'm not looking for much effects on the amp probably just reverb and gain as I don't use all the other ones.

You can get a '65 Twin Reverb Reissue for that, or less - they're typically £500-£600 in good condition second hand. Or one of the more modern models such as the '94 Twin or Pro-Tube Twin, which have an overdrive channel too. Although these both *are* really heavy, much heavier than the reissue.

But you're young and strong .

robinbowes

This is not a bad shout, actually:

http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/123815/bargain-fs-1981-fender-75-handwired-1-x-15-combo-400-no-offers/

Buy it, and put @voxmanjohn out of his misery!

robinbowes

Actually, I may know a Fender Twin that you would be interested in. If John Squire is your favourite guitarist, then you'll know who Chris Helme is. I believe Chris is selling a Fender Twin (I've borrowed it previously). I'll ask him if he's still selling, and what sort of price.

R.

Calum13

robinbowes said:

Actually, I may know a Fender Twin that you would be interested in. If John Squire is your favourite guitarist, then you'll know who Chris Helme is. I believe Chris is selling a Fender Twin (I've borrowed it previously). I'll ask him if he's still selling, and what sort of price.

R.

Is Chris Helme not the Seahorses singer? Good band but too bad they only put one album. Do you know Chris personally?

robinbowes

Calum13 said:

robinbowes said:

Actually, I may know a Fender Twin that you would be interested in. If John Squire is your favourite guitarist, then you'll know who Chris Helme is. I believe Chris is selling a Fender Twin (I've borrowed it previously). I'll ask him if he's still selling, and what sort of price.

R.

Is Chris Helme not the Seahorses singer? Good band but too bad they only put one album. Do you know Chris personally?

That's the fella. Yes, I know him personally - not closely, we have a lot of mutual friends from in and around York. I've msg'd him about his amp for you.

Calum13

robinbowes said:

Calum13 said:

robinbowes said:

Actually, I may know a Fender Twin that you would be interested in. If John Squire is your favourite guitarist, then you'll know who Chris Helme is. I believe Chris is selling a Fender Twin (I've borrowed it previously). I'll ask him if he's still selling, and what sort of price.

R.

Is Chris Helme not the Seahorses singer? Good band but too bad they only put one album. Do you know Chris personally?

That's the fella. Yes, I know him personally - not closely, we have a lot of mutual friends from in and around York. I've msg'd him about his amp for you.

Ok, thanks. Do you know much about the amp because I think the come with different speaker variations. I think John Squire had the orange basket ones.

robinbowes

@Calum13 I shall PM you.

ICBM

Calum13 said:

Do you know much about the amp because I think the come with different speaker variations. I think John Squire had the orange basket ones.

There are two types of those as well - JBL, and Gauss. Both were used as stock by Fender in the 1970s. They sound quite different, and I don't know which ones Squire's amp(s) had. They also both make the amp very heavy, Gauss even more so.

At the end of the day I wouldn't worry about copying the amp exactly - anything which gives a Fender Blackface/Silverface clean sound will get you into the right ballpark, and after that the guitar, effects and how you set everything is more important.

Calum13

ICBM said:

Calum13 said:

Do you know much about the amp because I think the come with different speaker variations. I think John Squire had the orange basket ones.

There are two types of those as well - JBL, and Gauss. Both were used as stock by Fender in the 1970s. They sound quite different, and I don't know which ones Squire's amp(s) had. They also both make the amp very heavy, Gauss even more so.

At the end of the day I wouldn't worry about copying the amp exactly - anything which gives a Fender Blackface/Silverface clean sound will get you into the right ballpark, and after that the guitar, effects and how you set everything is more important.

Would a champion get the sound or am I better off with the hot rod deluxe?

ICBM

Calum13 said:

Would a champion get the sound or am I better off with the hot rod deluxe?

Personally, I think the Champion will get closer - but I know it's a bit of a personal-taste thing. The Champion has more of the deep, scooped (is bass and treble high, mid low EQ) sound of the Twin, but not as much of the valve warmth which the Twin has even when clean. The Hotrod is the other way round.

The Hotrod is also notorious for having a very steep volume taper - basically off to too-loud in about a hair-width turn of the volume control - but don't let that put you off because it's easily cured with a small, cheap gadget which you put in the FX loop and which essentially becomes a second master volume that works on both channels.

The problem you may find with the Hotrod for what you want to do is that if you want to use the amp's overdrive channel, the EQ is shared between both channels. To get the Twin sound on the clean channel, you will need bass and treble high and mid low - but to get more of a Mesa-like sound on the drive channel, the other way round. However, a lot of people use Hotrods purely for the clean sound, with pedals for overdrive. You might also be able to get closer to the Mesa on the drive channel with your Maxon, which is a very mid-heavy pedal.

terada

Just to throw another option out there...

have you looked at any princeton reverb reissues?

these can be had for around your budget second hand and would be a better fit volume wise for a primarily home-use amp. 

impmann

OK, a couple of things about how John Squire uses his Twins...

Firstly, he doesn't use them clean or with reverb because...

Secondly, he bypasses the reverb with a little module to generate drive called the Ice Cube - like this one:

https://reverb.com/uk/item/6304033-jhd-ice-cube-sustain-coupler-for-fender-twin-1975-blue

So I doubt you'd get anywhere near the sound you are expecting 1) at low volume and 2) without either this module or a distortion/drive box in front of it.

menamestom

impmann said:

OK, a couple of things about how John Squire uses his Twins...

Firstly, he doesn't use them clean or with reverb because...

Secondly, he bypasses the reverb with a little module to generate drive called the Ice Cube - like this one:

https://reverb.com/uk/item/6304033-jhd-ice-cube-sustain-coupler-for-fender-twin-1975-blue

So I doubt you'd get anywhere near the sound you are expecting 1) at low volume and 2) without either this module or a distortion/drive box in front of it.

I used to rehearse with a Twin in Manchester that had 'Roses' stencilled on the flightcase.  It certainly didn't sound like John Squire's sound, that could be the reason why.

I remember it being very clean and a bit sterile, but I was used to small dynamic combos at the time and didn't know how to get a good sound with a twin.

ICBM

impmann said:

OK, a couple of things about how John Squire uses his Twins...

Firstly, he doesn't use them clean or with reverb because...

Secondly, he bypasses the reverb with a little module to generate drive called the Ice Cube - like this one:

https://reverb.com/uk/item/6304033-jhd-ice-cube-sustain-coupler-for-fender-twin-1975-blue

So I doubt you'd get anywhere near the sound you are expecting 1) at low volume and 2) without either this module or a distortion/drive box in front of it.

Aha... I didn't know that, that is very interesting and useful.

The using the reverb driver circuit to add overdrive idea was also used in three production Fender amps - the Fender 75 mentioned above, and the Super Champ and Princeton Reverb II of the Rivera series - but not any other amps from that series, or any other Rivera amp. (The pull-boost circuit on 70s Twins is a very primitive version of it but doesn't sound good.)

The Super Champ is rather rare and expensive nowadays and doesn't have the depth of tone either, although it's very small and neat. (I've owned four of them .) The Princeton Reverb II is less expensive, although also quite rare, and is a reasonable size and weight but surprisingly loud if you want it to be. The 75 is big and heavy, but has a fantastic depth of tone.

I don't think any of them will actually give you that sound at very low volume though, they're a bit dry and raspy until they're turned up a bit.

For what it's worth, the modern Super Champ XD/X2 is nothing like the original, but might actually be quite a good choice for a home-use approximation...