Guitar vs Amp

maltingsaudio

Having read another article on how to get the perfect tone, I realised that over the years I've changed and probably spent far more on amplification and effects than guitars. Guitars are mostly about how they feel to play and from there its down to what you play them through which gives you the tone you want, which definitely changes over time! 

impmann

Well, thats a POV.

But no amp will make a Strat sound like a Les Paul... although some amps try to make any guitar sound the same!

I've kept with similar amps over time, and used effects and guitars to create different sounds.

Not a 'better' way of doing it - just a different one.

joetele

Definitely agreed that you can't change the intrinsic tone of a guitar, but having the right amp to play it through is also essential. A great guitar can be ruined by a terrible amp, but a great amp can bring it the best in any guitar (unless it's a genuinely awful guitar beyond redemption of course...) 

crunchman

Both are important.

Unless you pile on silly amounts of gain a Strat will not sound like a Les Paul as @Impmann says - or a Tele or 335 for that matter.

At the same time, beyond a certain point the amp and effects are more important than the guitar.  If I have a decent Squier Tele, it will still sound great through a Lazy J.  Purely on sound, I bet most of us would struggle to pick it out from a Custom Shop Tele in a blind test.  If I put a Custom Shop Tele through a Valve Junior with its poxy little 8" speaker, it will sound a lot worse than the Squier through a Lazy J.

Those same Teles will also sound very different through a Deluxe Reverb or a Marshall Stack than they do through the Lazy J.

Both are important, but if I had a limited budget, I'd go for a Mexican Fender or a PRS SE through a good amp rather than a high end US guitar through a mediocre amp.

guitars4you

I've been part of such discussions many times and respect there will be different thought patterns - As an overview I believe you and the guitar generate the signal that the amplifier receives and then produces - If you are not happy about the relationship between you and the guitar, then what goes down the guitar lead to the amp will not be an ideal starting point

What amp you choose will of course depend on what type of voice you require - A hi-gain Boogie customer is generally a different customer to that who requires a clean Fender Twin

Many players will have 2 or more guitars to choose from for live work, be it down the Black Horse or at Wembley Stadium - But many will still only choose one amp for the set

I'd rather have a selection of guitars and one amp, as against less guitars and more amps

Personally I find that with an amp, that if I like the base tone,, coupled with a couple of pedals, then I'm happy and prefer to utilise different guitars, as required, for how they feel and sound, along with a different character that they produce - But if I'm not happy about how they play, then I'll never get a good sound that I'm content with

Ultimately it is about the relationship of all the components that are in the chain, but me and the guitar are the important starting point - garbage in garbage out might be a valid final point

Adam_MD

As long as the amp has a decent clean tone I’m happy to augment with pedals.  I’d rather have a HRD and a really great guitar than a squier and a lazy j.  

guitars4you

impmann said:

I've kept with similar amps over time, and used effects and guitars to create different sounds.

Not a 'better' way of doing it - just a different one.

tend to endorse that - and as an additional note, that whist I have a nice Fender valve amp that I utilise quite a bit, I'm also happy plugging into a 'Jonny no mates' Fender G-Dec or Boss JS10 Jam Station amp, with backing tracks, as they are great practice tools - Not the best tones by far, but at this stage I'm playing the guitar for fun and practice, so the amp is now only there to make my quite guitar a bit louder

crunchman

Adam_MD said:

As long as the amp has a decent clean tone I’m happy to augment with pedals.  I’d rather have a HRD and a really great guitar than a squier and a lazy j.  

The Hot Rod Deluxe is nearly £800 these days though.  It's not a cheap amp.

HRD is actually a very good amp with a decent speaker.  (The stock Eminence in the older ones does not count as decent).  With something like a Weber 12F150, it sounds better than a lot of "boutique" amps.  I only sold mine because it was too loud for my needs.  Once you get to that kind of level it is a matter of taste though.

It's the guys who are putting a £2k guitar through a £200 amp who are missing out.  If I had £1500 to spend, I'd go for a Mexican Fender through an HRD over a US Fender with a poxy little amp any day.

If you pushed me though, I'd probably still take a Classic Series Mexican Fender through a Lazy J than a Custom Shop Fender through an HRD.

Adam_MD

crunchman said:

Adam_MD said:

As long as the amp has a decent clean tone I’m happy to augment with pedals.  I’d rather have a HRD and a really great guitar than a squier and a lazy j.  

The Hot Rod Deluxe is nearly £800 these days though.  It's not a cheap amp.

HRD is actually a very good amp with a decent speaker.  (The stock Eminence in the older ones does not count as decent).  With something like a Weber 12F150, it sounds better than a lot of "boutique" amps.  I only sold mine because it was too loud for my needs.  Once you get to that kind of level it is a matter of taste though.

It's the guys who are putting a £2k guitar through a £200 amp who are missing out.  If I had £1500 to spend, I'd go for a Mexican Fender through an HRD over a US Fender with a poxy little amp any day.

If you pushed me though, I'd probably still take a Classic Series Mexican Fender through a Lazy J than a Custom Shop Fender through an HRD.

Agreed if you’re buying new but second hand you can pick them up for £350.  I’d fall on the other side of your analogy personally I’d rather have a custom shop through a hrd than a Mexican through a lazy j.  Though I’d probably be happy with either if I’m very honest.  

Though thinking about it neither really matters when I think about some of the guitarists I’ve met who talk about “finding their tone” all of the time yet can’t play the entire way through a single song just a bunch of half learned out of tune riffs.  

impmann

TBH, the HRD is a fantastic amp - and yes, you can find lots of more expensive amps... but honestly in a blindfold test, it holds its own (been there, done that... so went and bought one!).

I use amps as a characterful clean platform and build gain on top of that with pedals - the HRD does that very well.

In fact - the only thing I'd replace it with is a HiWatt. But I don't need that sort of power right now, nor the weight!!

joetele

I guess the main crux here is that if you've got a guitar that sounds good (whether it's a decent Squier or a Suhr), and an amp that is fairly transparent which sounds good too, then budget isn't really the issue - especially when you can get something that sounds as good as the Katana these days for very little - as long as you're not using one of those little amps you tend to get in starter packages. If both are good enough, then that's good enough. 

DannyP

If the OP wanted more agreement, he should have posted this in Amps!

guitars4you

joetele said:

I guess the main crux here is that if you've got a guitar that sounds good (whether it's a decent Squier or a Suhr), and an amp that is fairly transparent which sounds good too, then budget isn't really the issue - especially when you can get something that sounds as good as the Katana these days for very little - as long as you're not using one of those little amps you tend to get in starter packages. If both are good enough, then that's good enough. 

I have a few discerning customers who are raving about the quality of those Katana amps - A couple of guys I know both have nice boutique based amps and both use the Katana for rehearsal, home and small gigs now instead - Mainly for ease of use - But they don't sound crap

joetele

guitars4you said:

joetele said:

I guess the main crux here is that if you've got a guitar that sounds good (whether it's a decent Squier or a Suhr), and an amp that is fairly transparent which sounds good too, then budget isn't really the issue - especially when you can get something that sounds as good as the Katana these days for very little - as long as you're not using one of those little amps you tend to get in starter packages. If both are good enough, then that's good enough. 

I have a few discerning customers who are raving about the quality of those Katana amps - A couple of guys I know both have nice boutique based amps and both use the Katana for rehearsal, home and small gigs now instead - Mainly for ease of use - But they don't sound crap

Honestly, my next purchase is going to be a Boss Katana. I've got a Peavey Valveking II 50w (for sale in Amp£ forum right now for £300!) which is a stunning amp but I'm only using it at practice every 4-6 weeks and the rest of the time it sits at home because I play silently in the evenings via a preamp pedal into a Zoom R8. So as stated, it's being sold. 

So now I'm just trying to decide between a Katana 50 and 100. I've tried one of them in the local guitar shop when previewing a couple of guitars, and I've watched hundreds of demos, and I just need to decide between the two. I've asked a couple of members for their experience with them. 

munckee

Adam_MD said:

crunchman said:

Adam_MD said:

As long as the amp has a decent clean tone I’m happy to augment with pedals.  I’d rather have a HRD and a really great guitar than a squier and a lazy j.  

The Hot Rod Deluxe is nearly £800 these days though.  It's not a cheap amp.

HRD is actually a very good amp with a decent speaker.  (The stock Eminence in the older ones does not count as decent).  With something like a Weber 12F150, it sounds better than a lot of "boutique" amps.  I only sold mine because it was too loud for my needs.  Once you get to that kind of level it is a matter of taste though.

It's the guys who are putting a £2k guitar through a £200 amp who are missing out.  If I had £1500 to spend, I'd go for a Mexican Fender through an HRD over a US Fender with a poxy little amp any day.

If you pushed me though, I'd probably still take a Classic Series Mexican Fender through a Lazy J than a Custom Shop Fender through an HRD.

Agreed if you’re buying new but second hand you can pick them up for £350.  I’d fall on the other side of your analogy personally I’d rather have a custom shop through a hrd than a Mexican through a lazy j.  Though I’d probably be happy with either if I’m very honest.  

Though thinking about it neither really matters when I think about some of the guitarists I’ve met who talk about “finding their tone” all of the time yet can’t play the entire way through a single song just a bunch of half learned out of tune riffs.  

"some of the guitarists I’ve met who talk about “finding their tone” all of the time yet can’t play the entire way through a single song just a bunch of half learned out of tune riffs."

That's me and roughly half the forum, you leave us alone... : )  

Adam_MD

munckee said:

"some of the guitarists I’ve met who talk about “finding their tone” all of the time yet can’t play the entire way through a single song just a bunch of half learned out of tune riffs."

That's me and roughly half the forum, you leave us alone... : )  

Then you sir need to buy a tuner and learn an AC/DC or Oasis track the whole way through.   (Bands picked due to how easy they are to play)

arayadis

For sound, amp is more important I think. You can find hundreds of youtube videos like 300$ guitar vs 10000$ comparison videos and they sound "similar". 
For performans and feeling ofcourse guitar more important.

Rocker

The guitar and amp are a unit. Some combinations work better than others. There is no right answer, whatever works for you - keep on using it. 

No sense at all in destroying the sound of the guitar/amp by using an excessive number of FX pedals. If you need a lot of FX pedals, there is something wrong with your core sound. Get that part right first. IMHO. 

Adam_MD

Rocker said:

No sense at all in destroying the sound of the guitar/amp by using an excessive number of FX pedals. If you need a lot of FX pedals, there is something wrong with your core sound. Get that part right first. IMHO. 

There’s a difference between need and want.  Also having tons of pedals is often fun.  If you’ve got a great clean sound from a high headroom amp but want lots of different drive sounds as well then you need pedals or a multi fx unit.  

I can totally see why someone would want a fuzz, low gain od, high gain distortion and at least 1 boost if not 2 for before and after your drives.  It all depends what type of band you’re playing in.

munckee

I only play at home, start with a really good clean tone (princeton) but I still want little bit of compression on the clean sometimes (Marshall ED1) boost/mids (joyo american sound) gain/drive for solo (tubescreamer) and a looper.  All of those seem fairly essential to me.

ICBM

Rocker said:

No sense at all in destroying the sound of the guitar/amp by using an excessive number of FX pedals. If you need a lot of FX pedals, there is something wrong with your core sound. Get that part right first. IMHO. 

It depends. If the music you're playing requires those sounds, the pedals can be more important than the guitar or the amp.

In the last originals band I was in, that was the case. Any half-decent guitar and any half-decent amp would have been fine - in fact I quite regularly used provided backline - but some of the trademark sounds for some of the songs were in the pedals, and the music would have sounded very different without them, compared to with a different guitar or amp.

In general I think the guitar is more important than the amp too, assuming the amp has at least a usable solid clean tone. I like to get a crunch sound from the amp too, but it's not essential.