Can"t intonate an LP copy

Funkfingers

Rotating the stock bridge WILL allow slightly more adjustment towards the nut. i.e. The thickness of the flange on the adjustment screw.

A longer travel *harmonica* bridge might look fugly but should provide sufficient range of adjustment to achieve accurate intonation.

Take a look at the underside of the Höhner Rockwood bridge. It might have a Sung-il part identity number embossed. (BM002?) You need the type labelled BM003. It will fit the existing Metric studs.

ICBM

mbe said:

The saddles are different. E, A, D are ramped and the G, B, E look like symmetrical.

So, flipping the bridge would shorten the G, B, E string length more than the knife edge saddles. Would only take 5 minutes to try it, and the saddles could be set for shortest overall string length off the guitar.

Reversing the bridge won't help because the saddle travel is symmetrical relative to the screws - that's why they set the saddles like that, so the bridge can be fitted either way round. The saddles are all the same but the top and bottom three are pointing in opposite directions.

The first thing to do is to reverse the D saddle, and probably the A and the E as well - I always do this when setting up a far-east tune-o-matic and it always improves things.

But if you still can't get the E and B far enough forward, the only easy(ish) solution is going to be to move the bridge - the neck is already fitted correctly into the pocket unfortunately. I don't think a wide-travel bridge will fit those posts.

baldy

Thanks for all the advice guys.
ICBM, I am going to reverse the D,A & E saddles which I think will allow those strings to intonate correctly but it will still leave the E, B & G strings slightly flat I think.
I have measured the bridge position in relation to the end of the neck on both guitars & on this one it is nearly 1cm further back than the other, weird.
The rest of the guitar is in very good condition & I would like to sort this out as I have some mods planned for it.

ICBM

It does really look like, for some unknown reason, that they’ve drilled the holes for the bridge and tailpiece too far back.

The simplest solution is a Kahler .

baldy

Yes but even secondhand they are over 6 times what I paid for the guitar LOL.

pintspiller

Would a harmonica bridge give the room required?

ICBM

pintspiller said:

Would a harmonica bridge give the room required?

Probably, but the post spacing is slightly different from a far-east tune-o-matic so you would have to plug and re-drill - in which case it's easier to simply move the existing bridge.

In fact, it looks like you only have to move the treble side post - that would also have the advantage of correcting the string alignment on the fingerboard, which is slightly off.

baldy

 Yes if I move the treble post forward & maybe turn the D,A & E saddles around that should solve my problems.
Well spotted ICBM 
What do you suggest I plug the old post hole with, a dowel, filler, combination of both ?

ICBM

baldy said:

What do you suggest I plug the old post hole with, a dowel, filler, combination of both ?

Dowel, definitely. It needs to be as solid as the rest of the top or it will be difficult to drill the new hole without it wandering back into the old one.

WezV

ICBM said:

baldy said:

What do you suggest I plug the old post hole with, a dowel, filler, combination of both ?

Dowel, definitely. It needs to be as solid as the rest of the top or it will be difficult to drill the new hole without it wandering back into the old one.

Or a plug rather than a dowel because you can then have the grain going the right way.   It makes it easier to cut, sand and finish, so re-drilling accurately is much easier.      Never filler, that's the important message

You don't need to measure where to put it when drilling.   String up the guitar with the bridge floating on some shims.   Get it in the position where it intonates best.  Mark your drill holes from that

baldy

Does the wire running across the top of the bridge over the saddle adjustment screws just pop off to allow the saddles to be taken out & reversed ?

ICBM

baldy said:

Does the wire running across the top of the bridge over the saddle adjustment screws just pop off to allow the saddles to be taken out & reversed ?

Yes. It can sometimes be tricky without kinking it, but it can be done - a small flat screwdriver and a pair of fine-nose pliers will do it.

Occasionally the saddles stick and you need to lever them out with the screwdriver under the screw head and over the next one along.

baldy

Looking at the above diagram for a replacement bridge the "width" of the bridge is given as 14mm.
My bridge is 10.8mm wide.
Could this be my problem ?
Would the above bridge give me about 1mm further travel each way on the saddles ?
If it did that would probably cure my problem as the strings are only very slightly flat.
All the other dimensions including post hole diameter match my bridge so it would be a straight swap.

ICBM

Are they roller saddles?

If so, no - because the saddle bases are wider and can’t travel as far in the slots as plain ones, and the roller itself has the take-off point in the middle.

skunkwerx

I gotta say, seeing as the bridge doesnt fall within the range of the scale length, the only real fix I can think of is going to be moving the entire bridge, ie new post hole/s, seeing as the neck is fully in. 

Maybe a different bridge exists that can be placed on the current posts and allow you a mm or 2 extra travel, but it wouldnt surprise me if thats not quite enough. 

Also has the downside of not allowing any extra should you need it in months to come. 

baldy

The saddles in the diagram I posted apparently have 11mm of travel front to back, the saddles in my bridge have 7mm of travel ?

ICBM

baldy said:

The saddles in the diagram I posted apparently have 11mm of travel front to back, the saddles in my bridge have 7mm of travel ?

Yes, but on your bridge the front face of the saddle will go all the way to the end of the slot if it's facing the right way round. If the one with roller saddles has saddles 4mm thick, the centre of the saddle - where the string vibrates from on a roller - can never get closer than 2mm from the end of the slot, so you've just lost that extra room.

That's almost certainly *why* it's designed with 11mm slots, to give the same overall travel as the non-roller version.

baldy

Oh, I hadn"t thought of that.
On one of my other LP copies I have a non roller bridge with the same type saddles as on the Hohner but the saddle slot is nearly 5mm wider.
I am pretty sure that that would give me the movement I need.
I can"t really try that bridge on the Hohner though as it has different diameter post holes but if I could get that bridge with the correct diameter post holes it would save me plugging & re-drilling.
Also once plugged & drilled I would need to re-finish the areas & I have no idea how to do that.

mbe

The adjuster posts off your other LP might screw into the anchors in the Hohner. If so you could swap bridge and posts.

baldy

I believe this is the bridge I need, a T-O-M "Nashville" style bridge.
The saddle slots are 11mm wide as compared to my ABR-1 bridges 7mm.
It should give me an extra 2mm of forward movement which should be plenty to intonate properly.
Anyway I have ordered one.