Can"t intonate an LP copy

baldy

So as I like my Hohner Rockwood LX250G so much I had the chance to pick up another on the weekend for a song, £20.
My intention with this one is to mod it a bit as I have various pieces of suitable hardware knocking around.
However try as I might I cannot get it to intonate properly (the other one intonates fine).
I am wondering if the answer will be to change the TOM bridge ?
I have adjusted the saddles as far as they will go & still have issues with a few strings.

mbe

Could you get more adjustment by turning round the saddles?

punchesjudy

Yeah, as above, turning the saddles should help. 

skunkwerx

Measure the distance from edge of nut closest the fretboard, to above the middle of fret 12. 

Double the measurement. That’ll give you your scale length. 

Then measure the doubled figure from edge of nut and see where it lands around the saddles. If its miles off from wherever the string would come off the saddles then theres probably bigger problemos. 

However, if the scale length lands around the saddles range of movement, it should be able to intonate fine. 

Have you set the rest of the guitar up? Neck relief, string height, pickup height etc? All of those can make for innacuracies in intonation in my experience. 

Are the strings new and fully stretched in too? 

Also a recent tip I’ve learned. When tuning, switch to neck pickup and roll your tone pot off. It doesnt change the note of course, but It helps the tuner pickup the note a little better. Something about reduced harmonics or frequencies.. 

My low E would bounce around a lot on the tuner, but by doing the above the tuner has a much easier time detecting it. 

You can flip the saddles around for a little more range one way or the other, but I’d check those other things first! 

prowla

Well, my first thought was the trick of turning the saddles around, but I see it's already been suggested...

sweepy

Check the nut height as well as reversing the offending saddle. I had an Epiphone Les Paul in that was “impossible” to tune apparently, reversed the G and B saddles and re cut the nut, voila, so don’t give up on it yet

baldy

Turning the saddles around would help on some of the strings but not all.
I have just measured the distance from the nut (fingerboard side) to the 12th fret & it is about 31cm.
62cm is over 1cm forward of where the strings come off the saddles with the saddles as far forward as they will go.
I had already set up relief, string height, pup height.
I just measured my other Hohner & from the nut to the 12th fret is again about 31cm but 62cm falls about in the middle or slightly forward of the saddles movement range & that one intonates fine.

baldy

I bought this second Hohner as a bit of a modding platform.
Does the bridge need moving forward around 1.5cm then ?

skunkwerx

baldy said:

I bought this second Hohner as a bit of a modding platform.
Does the bridge need moving forward around 1.5cm then ?

How interesting. 

I’m no tech, but I’m sure the scale length should sit within the range of the saddles movement. Unless your neck is bowed to an extreme that is.. which it doesnt sound to be. 

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will be along soon to see my original post and correct me if I’m wrong, but to my knowledge if the measured scale length is that far off the saddles, it sounds like somethings not been put together in the right place.. 

ICBM

I suspect the neck is either not fitted into the pocket correctly or may not be original to that body.

Fixing it at the neck joint is likely to be easier and less obvious than moving the bridge.

baldy

At £20 is it worth the hassle or is it an easy fix ?
I have swapped pups, pots, harnesses, nuts, bridges, tuners but have never swapped a neck or altered a necks length.

Funkfingers

Remote diagnosis is almost always aided by photographs.

I suspect that ICBM is on the right track. The screwed-on neck is not sitting in the pocket properly. Could be a bodged attempt at shimming. Could be a Höhner neck on a body of a different brand.

One way in which the T-o-M bridge could contribute to intonation problems is if the stud posts are being pulled towards the neck.

Corvus

I had one of these, bought for a mate, thought it played well and sustained a good lot above its pay grade.

Anyway - as you've a pair, measure lots on each inc scale, bridge to nut, neck length to body etc. See if anythings different.

One thing also, I bought some cheapo strings and from new a couple wouldn't intonate properly, just an offchance thought.

baldy

benecol

I don't think it'll be this, but it's worth a squirt: drop the pickups right down low in case one of them has crazy pull on it.

I was always really dubious of this "magnetic pull from the pickups" lark - it's hardly a tractor beam - but then I had a strat which wouldn't intonate, and someone (Marc Skreddy - clang) suggested dropping the pickups a bit. Worked like a charm.

baldy

The pups are already pretty low but I can give it a try.
All strings fretted on the 12th are slightly flat but there is no more forward movement left on the saddles.

mbe

Flip the bridge. Might just get it to intonate. 

baldy

I tried lowering the pups but still the same.
Flipping the bridge may be awkward as it looks like the strings may foul the adjustment screws as they run back to the stop tail, but I will have a look.

77ric

Flipping the bridge won’t help as the saddle orientation will be the same, however flipping the saddles in the T-O-M may help on the bass side. 

baldy

Yes but not on the treble side unfortunately.
I may try a different T-O-M as they are only cheap.

mbe

The saddles are different. E, A, D are ramped and the G, B, E look like symmetrical.

So, flipping the bridge would shorten the G, B, E string length more than the knife edge saddles. Would only take 5 minutes to try it, and the saddles could be set for shortest overall string length off the guitar.