p.s.a l/h Fender classic vibe strat bargain

darthed1981

thegummy said:

darthed1981 said:

thegummy said:

There's a lot of internet hype about upper end squiers but I think people are getting carried away saying they're better than fenders.

Depends which ones...?

There is no particular reason a Squier CANNOT be better than a Fender surely?  Especially for a given individual?

The fact they're both owned by the same company and part of the same price range makes it unlikely the cheaper ones would be consistently better quality than the more expensive ones, just like it would be unlikely a 600 quid fender would be consistently better than a 900.

I'm only talking about objective quality like the comment that the neck pocket doesn't match up properly. For personal preference then by all means someone might prefer a classic vibe to a standard. 

Personal preference could prefer anything though, could prefer a 80 quid Argos effort to a 5 grand boutique.

I'm only talking about objective quality problems. I think it's a bit of internet mythology that if you took a large batch of 400 quid Squiers and 600 quid fenders, there would be fewer quality problems on the squiers.

Could be a kind of conspiracy angle where fender take what should be 300 quid guitars and badge them as fender to con people.

Or the other angle where people like to think they've discovered a secret where they can get more for less.

Well the new Mexicans are getting quite the pasting online for quality issues.

The Squier CVs have always been considered excellent quality, objectively speaking.

Fender wouldn't deliberately make them bad, just potentially a bit less good.

Also, the Classic Vibes have a, well, classic vibe, whereas the latest mexis go for a more "modern" look and feel, so potentially superior from that point of view.

Point taken about objective quality issues, but you find these across everyone's ranges.

Squier CVs are bluddy good guitars, the fact they are also not expensive just adds to their appeal.

Lets face it guitarists are often snobs, and for every guitarist who misguidedly thinks they have found a cheap wonder weapon there are two justifying how they had to have an axe costing thousands.

mikeyrob73

@thegummy ;
have you played many Classic Vibes? 

thegummy

darthed1981 said:

thegummy said:

darthed1981 said:

thegummy said:

There's a lot of internet hype about upper end squiers but I think people are getting carried away saying they're better than fenders.

Depends which ones...?

There is no particular reason a Squier CANNOT be better than a Fender surely?  Especially for a given individual?

The fact they're both owned by the same company and part of the same price range makes it unlikely the cheaper ones would be consistently better quality than the more expensive ones, just like it would be unlikely a 600 quid fender would be consistently better than a 900.

I'm only talking about objective quality like the comment that the neck pocket doesn't match up properly. For personal preference then by all means someone might prefer a classic vibe to a standard. 

Personal preference could prefer anything though, could prefer a 80 quid Argos effort to a 5 grand boutique.

I'm only talking about objective quality problems. I think it's a bit of internet mythology that if you took a large batch of 400 quid Squiers and 600 quid fenders, there would be fewer quality problems on the squiers.

Could be a kind of conspiracy angle where fender take what should be 300 quid guitars and badge them as fender to con people.

Or the other angle where people like to think they've discovered a secret where they can get more for less.

Well the new Mexicans are getting quite the pasting online for quality issues.

The Squier CVs have always been considered excellent quality, objectively speaking.

Fender wouldn't deliberately make them bad, just potentially a bit less good.

Also, the Classic Vibes have a, well, classic vibe, whereas the latest mexis go for a more "modern" look and feel, so potentially superior from that point of view.

Point taken about objective quality issues, but you find these across everyone's ranges.

Squier CVs are bluddy good guitars, the fact they are also not expensive just adds to their appeal.

Lets face it guitarists are often snobs, and for every guitarist who misguidedly thinks they have found a cheap wonder weapon there are two justifying how they had to have an axe costing thousands.

On that last point - if someone was insisting to me that their 2 grand guitar was so much better quality than a Squier (or mid range fender for that matter) I'd ask what it was that made them so much better. If they were knowledgeable they may well point out a few things, possibly subtle. But the reaction would be that it's not surprising, it's obviously to be expected that the model a company charge 5 times the asking for would be better quality.

But when the claim is that they same company's 400 quid guitar is way better than most of their 600 quid ones then it's obviously a more pertinent question.

Again, when the claim is the other way round I ask what makes those ones better and I very much have asked people what makes expensive guitars objectively better. I tend to find that there are a few very knowledgeable people who maybe work in the business and can actually describe differences that are sometimes subtle. There tends to be a lot of vague responses too where people really don't know if they really are better never mind why.

There's always the problem where people will try to defend what they happen to own - even if it's subconsciously convincing themselves. Some people who have bought a budget guitar want to believe they've gotten more than they've paid for and some who have bought an expensive one want to think they have gotten more and they've not thrown money away.

thegummy

mikeyrob73 said:

@thegummy ;
have you played many Classic Vibes? 

That you ask that question makes me wonder if you're missing my point about objective quality.

The answer is that I've played a relatively small sample size of cv or low end fenders but I've never found any obvious quality issues with any of either.

See above as to why I'd question a claim that either were way better and that it's obviously more of a question when it's the cheaper one from the same range that's claimed to be better.

HAL9000

Having played a small handful of  CV Teles and Strays, and MIM Std Teles and Strats, I'd say that the MIM instruments seem to have more substantial hardware, and feel a bit beefier in the neck department. However they were let down a bit by the ceramic pickups. Not that they were by any means bad, but they did lack the warmth and definition of decent Alnico units. Fortunately it's an easy thing to rectify.

In contrast (and imho) the hardware of the CV guitars feels just a little more flimsy, and the neck a little skinnier. However, the Alnico pickups sound great. 

Given the choice I'd go for the MIM and a pickup swap.

darthed1981

thegummy said:

There's always the problem where people will try to defend what they happen to own - even if it's subconsciously convincing themselves. Some people who have bought a budget guitar want to believe they've gotten more than they've paid for and some who have bought an expensive one want to think they have gotten more and they've not thrown money away.

That is to some extent reasonable, there are probably three very broad groups of people on TFB and they cross over a bit (arguably a lot) and it does inform everyone's opinions.

1. Collectors, people who collect guitars for a hobby.  Most play but are not necessarily pros, some here have collections worth many tens of thousands of pounds.

2. Pro and semi-pro gigging musicians.  Some have expensive gear but they need what they can rely on week-in week-out.

3. Amateurs and bedroom musicians, who come here to share their playing and gear hobby (like me)!

A lot of members are in 2 or even 3 of these groups, but perspective really is king. 

Group 1 would reject a Classic Vibe because it wouldnt hold its value and has no kudos.

Group 2 would modify it to remove the slightly lower quality hardware for reliability, and potentially reject because of snobbery on the gigging circuit.

Group 3 would hopefully think they are damn perfect, as they are lovely to play, sound great and look great on the wall, and snobbery is for fools.

Even post R8-mania, I'd hope there is still home here for people solely in Group 3.